Session Start: Sun Feb 07 00:00:00 2010
Session Ident: #ti
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[01:48] <DJ_Omni> tev
[01:48] <DJ_Omni> you shouldn't have suggested omnimaga to that guy on ticalc D:
[01:50] <DJ_Omni> it's ok tho
[01:51] <DJ_Omni> having seen previous comments from him, I have doubt he'll have interest since he dislike large games
[01:53] <DJ_Omni> that said
[01:53] <DJ_Omni> he claims to have uploaded many programs
[01:53] <DJ_Omni> but got rejected.
[01:53] <DJ_Omni> If any involves lolis, e-mail to Genolo
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[08:19] <player_> anyone here who can answer an asm question?
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[08:33] <debrouxl> player_: on what calculator (TI-Z80 or TI-68k) ?
[08:33] <player_> z80
[08:36] <debrouxl> Then I can't help you :(
[08:36] <player_> ok, mainly my question was, can you store data in the program, and have it change?
[08:38] <player_> I didn't know if that was z80 specific or not, brb
[08:40] <player_> back
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[12:27] <BrandonW> If anyone manages to get their hands on this rumored new 84+/SE OS on the 15th, please send it to me so I can dig into what they did.
[12:28] <player_> ok, out of curiosity are you trying to get it also?
[12:29] <BrandonW> Yes, and I just got it.
[12:29] <BrandonW> Version 2.53.
[12:31] <player_> did you get it off their website?
[12:31] <cemeyer> that was impressively fast
[12:31] <BrandonW> Yeah, I fired off a bunch of e-mails before I said that.
[12:31] <BrandonW> No, it's supposedly going to be on the web site on February 15th.
[12:31] <BrandonW> They apparently improved the math functionality a lot.
[12:32] <player_> could I have a copy?
[12:32] <cemeyer> and only on the 84s, not the 83s?
[12:32] <BrandonW> This is a very interesting turn of events, I have to say.
[12:32] <BrandonW> Yes.
[12:32] <cemeyer> Huh.
[12:34] <BrandonW> Holy mother of god, I have trouble even believing TI did this.
[12:34] <BrandonW> It's like they took Symbolic/PrettyPrint/TI-73 stuff and merged it in.
[12:34] <player_> that bad? or good
[12:35] <BrandonW> This must've been absolutely asinine display changes.
[12:35] <BrandonW> This greatly complicates dealing with the homescreen.
[12:35] <SirCmpwn> can you post an update on your website w/a link?
[12:35] <cemeyer> screenshots?
[12:35] <BrandonW> http://ti.bank.free.fr/index.php?mod=news&ac=commentaires&id=792
[12:35] <player_> that looks fail...
[12:36] <SirCmpwn> i dont like it
[12:36] <player_> is this a download?
[12:36] <+rcfreak0> oO new 84 OS
[12:36] <BrandonW> Not yet.
[12:36] <player_> ok
[12:36] <player_> but wow O_o
[12:36] <BrandonW> Yeah.
[12:37] <BrandonW> This even changes fake RAM reset programs.
[12:37] <+rcfreak0> ah. just started readint the google thread thing. so im confused lol
[12:37] <SirCmpwn> i got it. if you know where to go for downloading signed oses/old oses, go there.
[12:37] <player_> so we can't fake it for tests?
[12:38] <player_> wait, so those frac/func/mtrx/yvar things are only accesible through pressing alpha and the top row of keys?
[12:39] <BrandonW> That's just their concept of a custom menu.
[12:39] <BrandonW> The biggest thing is the fractions.
[12:40] <player_> I see they added the (funny greek symbol) thing that adds all the stuff...I forget the name
[12:41] <SirCmpwn> i usually know what that is called, but i forgot it just cause you mentioned it
[12:41] <SirCmpwn> its basically a for loop
[12:41] <player_> yeah, or a "Sum(Seq(equation,variable, start, stop:
[12:41] <player_> *"
[12:42] <SirCmpwn> its called sigma
[12:42] <player_> sigma
[12:43] <player_> lol, thanks wikipedia
[12:43] <SirCmpwn> summation notation. thankx wikipedia
[12:43] <SirCmpwn> lol
[12:43] <player_> :P
[12:43] <SirCmpwn> you go to wikipedia and search for mathematical symbols?
[12:43] <player_> I was on this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_letters_used_in_mathematics,_science,_and_engineering
[12:43] <player_> I searced for...
[12:43] <player_> greek math
[12:43] <SirCmpwn> oh. i was on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_mathematical_symbols
[12:44] <BrandonW> I'm going to have to resume looking into why a 2.x OS won't boot on an 83+/SE.
[12:44] <BrandonW> And see if we can't port this thing to it.
[12:44] <SirCmpwn> oh b4 you go, you use VB.Net, right?
[12:45] <player_> oh and you said you would send the os to me
[12:45] <BrandonW> No I didn't, and someone here said they got it off a site.
[12:45] <player_> oh
[12:45] <cemeyer> nice try ;)
[12:45] <BrandonW> I'm shifting away from VB.NET, but what's up?
[12:46] <SirCmpwn> i got it from a site, yes. Brandon, im doing a presentation that needs to be in C# and VB, and I only know C#. An example of a confusing line in C# is "Variable = (Variable == 3 ? 4 : 3)", what is an example in VB?
[12:46] <BrandonW> An example of a confusing line..
[12:46] <cemeyer> I don't think you'll have trouble picking up VB if you know C#
[12:47] <BrandonW> VB.NET doesn't have scary shorthand like ? :.
[12:47] <cemeyer> VB.net, that is
[12:47] <SirCmpwn> anything scary?
[12:47] <BrandonW> Not really, they have keywords for everything.
[12:47] <Tribal> SirCmpwn, it'd be
[12:47] <BrandonW> It's designed to read.
[12:47] <BrandonW> Easily.
[12:47] <Tribal> Variable = IIf(Variable = 3, 4, 3)
[12:48] <SirCmpwn> hmm, ok. and what are lines delimited with in VB?
[12:48] <Tribal> IIf(condition, true, false)
[12:48] <SirCmpwn> Tribal, does that actually work?
[12:48] <Tribal> yes
[12:48] <BrandonW> Environment.NewLine.
[12:48] <Tribal> or vbNewLine
[12:48] <BrandonW> iT TECHNICALLY WORKS, BUT YOU SHOULDN'T.
[12:48] <SirCmpwn> tkx. and i mean a line of code, like ";" in C#
[12:48] <BrandonW> Whoops, caps lock.
[12:48] <Tribal> BrandonW, why shouldn't you?
[12:49] <BrandonW> Because it's old and ugly.
[12:49] <BrandonW> It's a function, not a part of the language.
[12:49] <Tribal> Is there a different way to do it?
[12:49] <Tribal> ah
[12:50] <BrandonW> VB.NET is supposed to be an attempt to get away from all that ugly VB6 stuff.
[12:50] <SirCmpwn> so if i were to demonstrate unreadable code by removing whitespace, what do i have to put in between the lines (like ";" in C#)
[12:51] <Tribal> I don't remember
[12:51] <BrandonW> Whitespace is important in VB.NET, to continue lines you use _ at the end of the preceding line.
[12:51] <BrandonW> C# has a character you use to end a line, VB.NET has a character you use to NOT end a line.
[12:51] <Tribal> And you can't use single quotes, obviously
[12:51] <Tribal> Which is dumb
[12:51] <BrandonW> I guess that's true, to specify characters you would have to do "A"c.
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[12:51] <SirCmpwn> hmmm, so in C# i can do if (condition) { code; code; code; }, what could i do in VB?
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[12:52] <BrandonW> If condition Then
[12:52] <BrandonW> code
[12:52] <BrandonW> End If
[12:52] <SirCmpwn> you cant do it on one line?
[12:52] <BrandonW> No.
[12:52] <BrandonW> You can if it's one line.
[12:52] <BrandonW> If condition Then code
[12:52] <BrandonW> But not multiple.
[12:52] <SirCmpwn> ah. VB is hard to make unreadable, i guess. can you easily obsficate it without being outrageous?
[12:53] <BrandonW> You can make the logic ugly as sin, but the code's still going to read fine.
[12:53] <SirCmpwn> hmmm, so whitespace cannot be an ugly factor?
[12:53] <BrandonW> No.
[12:53] <SirCmpwn> can you remove tabs, maybe?
[12:54] <BrandonW> Yeah, I guess.
[12:54] <BrandonW> Visual Studio will try its best to auto-correct that stuff for you.
[12:54] <BrandonW> It's a lot more invasive than C#.
[12:55] <SirCmpwn> you don't have to go through visual studio, although id like to. 2010 doesn't interfere as much unless you ask it to
[12:56] <SirCmpwn> thanks. is there anything at all i can do to show an example of bad VB code?
[12:56] <SirCmpwn> (other than not commenting your code)
[12:56] <BrandonW> They definitely added new BCALLs to this OS. And some USB-related.
[12:56] <BrandonW> Bad as in hard to read, or bad as in abusive and wasteful?
[12:56] <BrandonW> Because you can definitely do the latter.
[12:57] <SirCmpwn> the first is better. my presentation is geared towards coding n00bs and is about good habits for coding in a team
[12:59] <BrandonW> I can't really think of the first.
[13:01] <DrDnar> New OS?
[13:01] <BrandonW> Yes!
[13:02] <BrandonW> I really should be at work right now, but I'm going to take a few hours to write up an initial analysis.
[13:02] <DrDnar> 2.43?
[13:02] <SirCmpwn> BrandonW: thats why the calculator community <3s you
[13:02] <SirCmpwn> DrDnar: yes
[13:03] <BrandonW> It's 2.53MP.
[13:03] <BrandonW> Whatever that means.
[13:03] <DrDnar> Oh, where is it?
[13:04] <BrandonW> Somebody here has the link.
[13:04] <BrandonW> DrDnar, it has pretty print.
[13:04] <BrandonW> Or at the very least, 73 fraction-like functionality.
[13:04] <BrandonW> As well as a custom menu.
[13:04] <BrandonW> Graphical using the F1-F4 softkeys.
[13:04] <DrDnar> Is this for real from TI? or just a hack?
[13:04] <SirCmpwn> im sharing a link on cemetech, i dont want to post it everywhere
[13:05] <DrDnar> TI's web site is still on 2.43
[13:05] <BrandonW> It looks fake as hell to me, but they added stuff to the BCALL table, so I call real.
[13:05] <BrandonW> DrDnar, it was leaked.
[13:05] <BrandonW> It'll be on education.ti.com on the 15h.
[13:05] <BrandonW> 15th.*
[13:05] <BrandonW> That's right from a TI newsgroup post.
[13:05] <DrDnar> It looks fake but it's real?
[13:05] <BrandonW> Yes.
[13:06] <BrandonW> It's just an awful way to add that stuff.
[13:06] <DrDnar> It seems odd that TI would actually add something actually useful.
[13:06] <BrandonW> The graphical softkey menu is wasteful and takes time to draw.
[13:06] <SirCmpwn> hate to bring down the mood, but can brandon look to see if it does something to thwart the recent signing key discoveries?
[13:06] <BrandonW> DrDnar, frankly I think this is a response to the DMCA stuff. Many sites posted how TI hasn't updated the OS in years on these things.
[13:06] <BrandonW> Nothing can be done, SirCmpwn.
[13:07] <BrandonW> That was the beauty of it.
[13:07] <DrDnar> Yeah, it sounds like it.
[13:07] <BrandonW> My primary concern is the universal Flash unlock exploit.
[13:08] <BrandonW> If someone could download and install the OS, then try to dump the certificate or something, that would be helpful.
[13:08] <DrDnar> I think we should hack an OS to include OS-base password protection and fail-brick security.
[13:08] <BrandonW> Fail-brick security?
[13:09] <DrDnar> The certificate is corrupted every time the password protection is engaged, and uncorrupted when it's entered. So you try to bypass it, the unit is bricked.
[13:09] <SirCmpwn> brandonw: they did update ti-connect recently, and they are about to update TIOS...
[13:09] <BrandonW> That's modifying the certificate sector on every boot. I don't like it.
[13:09] <DrDnar> I think we could have a computer-side application for choosing which options are live.
[13:09] <BrandonW> SirCmpwn, silent linking functionality is one thing I'll check.
[13:10] <BrandonW> New BCALLs and exploits we rely on take precedence.
[13:10] <SirCmpwn> true.
[13:10] <BrandonW> I'm so excited I can't stand it.
[13:10] <BrandonW> Hard to know what to check first.
[13:11] <BrandonW> I should probably start switching to this for my "base" disassembly.
[13:11] <BrandonW> I've been using 2.41 for ages.
[13:11] <player_> I've got 2.40 since I got my calc I think
[13:12] <BrandonW> A BCALL to receive USB data sure would be nice.
[13:12] <BrandonW> I wonder if this removes all the extra RAM page support.
[13:12] <BrandonW> Since there's no longer a need for it.
[13:13] <DrDnar> they would
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[13:13] <DrDnar> just to screw with us
[13:14] <Tribal> That'd suck
[13:14] <Tribal> I'd be pissed
[13:14] <BrandonW> It's not a bad thing.
[13:15] <Tribal> How so?
[13:15] <BrandonW> I just meant removing their code that deals with all of it. Doesn't impact us.
[13:15] <Tribal> I'm probably just majorly misinturpreting things
[13:15] <Tribal> oh
[13:15] <SirCmpwn> ive been on the newest version every time a new version was out, until i started trying out 3rd party oses once they started getting signed
[13:15] <BrandonW> I can tell you one thing...they FILLED UP page 74h.
[13:15] <Tribal> Yeah, then I was
[13:15] <BrandonW> That's the USB page.
[13:15] <BrandonW> That page was over halfway empty.
[13:16] <SirCmpwn> maybe they are doing a USB8X type of support?
[13:16] * SirCmpwn is hopeful
[13:16] <BrandonW> This is really exciting.
[13:16] <BrandonW> Oh god I hope they didn't kill the USB activity hook.
[13:17] <BrandonW> We can probably add it back.
[13:17] <SirCmpwn> could someone implement a patch to put it back?
[13:17] <SirCmpwn> oh
[13:18] <BrandonW> They've filled up page 1B.
[13:19] * +rcfreak0 (~rcfreak0@adsl-68-254-168-90.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) Quit (bbl)
[13:20] <SirCmpwn> which is that?
[13:20] <BrandonW> The one that has the BCALL jump table.
[13:20] <BrandonW> And miscellaneous stuff we tend to care about.
[13:20] <BrandonW> As well as the hook page.
[13:21] <SirCmpwn> ah.
[13:21] <BrandonW> I'm doing a runthrough of every page right now, starting with page 0.
[13:21] <SirCmpwn> perhaps they have added more hooks to be useful (for once?)
[13:22] <BrandonW> The USB activity hook does appear to still be there.
[13:24] <BrandonW> I keep expecting to see a "we're watching you, Brandon" string in here.
[13:24] <DrDnar> hahahaha
[13:24] <player_> lol
[13:24] <JenosaZX> heh
[13:24] <BrandonW> I think they might've added new ON+ key combinations.
[13:25] <BrandonW> Oh baby...
[13:26] <BrandonW> There's a call to BCAL 5410h.
[13:26] <BrandonW> That means they added A TON of them.
[13:26] <BrandonW> BCALL*
[13:26] <JenosaZX> wow
[13:26] <BrandonW> It happens with certain ON+ keys.
[13:26] * SirCmpwn is now known as TexasInst
[13:26] <TexasInst> We are watching, Brandon
[13:26] * TexasInst is now known as SirCmpwn
[13:27] <player_> you forgot the word "you"
[13:27] <JenosaZX> It makes sense without it
[13:27] <player_> eh, not so much for me but oh well
[13:27] <BrandonW> This is definitely going to be interesting.
[13:27] <JenosaZX> it's the implied you
[13:28] <JenosaZX> but that's for another channel
[13:28] <JenosaZX> Indeed @BrandonW
[13:28] <JenosaZX> I'm just worried that TI's going to something underhanded with the newest OS that completely f***s up the status quo negatively :/
[13:28] <BrandonW> Yeah, me too.
[13:28] <BrandonW> That's why I'm trying to find out ASAP.
[13:28] <BrandonW> Preferably before they release it.
[13:29] <SirCmpwn> struggling to find a copy, i misread the download i found, its just 2.43'
[13:31] * critor (Mibbit@cro34-2-82-228-148-82.fbx.proxad.net) has joined #ti
[13:31] <BrandonW> Hey critor.
[13:32] <critor> hi Brandon
[13:32] <BrandonW> They've definitely added quite a bit.
[13:32] <BrandonW> At least 75 BCALLs, if not more.
[13:32] <SirCmpwn> holy cow
[13:32] <JenosaZX> o.o
[13:32] <critor> wow
[13:32] <JenosaZX> Yeesh, that's a lot
[13:34] <SirCmpwn> google sux
[13:34] <BrandonW> They did 130 or something in the jump to 2.x.
[13:35] <BrandonW> Or the jump to 2.30.
[13:35] <BrandonW> That was mostly because they ran out of space elsewhere.
[13:35] <SirCmpwn> hey cya l8r gtg
[13:35] <BrandonW> And considering how low on space they are, I'd say most of these are for that, too.
[13:35] <BrandonW> But hopefully some of them are useful to us.
[13:36] <JenosaZX> I wish I understood half of this >.>;
[13:36] <DrDnar> If I wanted to screw with reverse engineers, I'd do something like reverse the layout of the OS, keeping only the vital page 0 and jump tables in the same place.
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[13:36] <JenosaZX> lol >.<
[13:36] <BrandonW> Don't give them ideas. :(
[13:37] <DrDnar> Well, if they'd hadn't been so stupid as to lock a whole 64 K sector for 16 K of USB code (they could have used a 32 K sector), they'd have more space.
[13:37] <DrDnar> But now it's too late.
[13:38] <BrandonW> They still have sector 70h.
[13:38] <BrandonW> There's OS code to actually make sure it's blank.
[13:38] <BrandonW> At least there used to be.
[13:38] <DrDnar> If they get really desperate, they could start using the last 32 K of the last sector of the archive.
[13:38] <BrandonW> Which suggests they intend to use it for data.
[13:38] <BrandonW> Maybe this OS does that.
[13:38] <BrandonW> I don't know, lots of questions. :)
[13:40] <DrDnar> Hmm, I could write a program that could update a ROM with a new OS version.
[13:40] <DrDnar> But that would, like, work.
[13:40] <BrandonW> That's actually a really good idea.
[13:41] <DrDnar> I still have that Python code I wrote that can partially parse variable files.
[13:41] <BrandonW> Uh...
[13:42] <BrandonW> There's definitely some stuff going on here.
[13:42] <BrandonW> With app headers and page 0.
[13:42] <JenosaZX> oh?
[13:42] <BrandonW> Removing all the shareware app stuff would be another thing they could do to save space.
[13:43] <JenosaZX> "shareware app stuff" ?
[13:43] <nikky> zoommath
[13:43] <BrandonW> They used to have shareware/trial applications that would delete themselves after a certain date or so many executions.
[13:43] <BrandonW> Zoom Math does something completely custom, because TI's sucks for that use.
[13:44] <player_> wow, really what were some of them?
[13:44] <JenosaZX> Huh
[13:44] <BrandonW> The things you see on education.ti.com.
[13:44] <BrandonW> They're all freeware now.
[13:44] * KermM (~KermM@cpe-66-65-60-191.nyc.res.rr.com) Quit (Ping timeout: no data for 492 seconds)
[13:44] <JenosaZX> I never actually had any of those on my calculator
[13:45] <BrandonW> They moved some of the strings to page 0.
[13:46] <BrandonW> The really telling pages will be 7B, 7C, and 7D, which I'll do next because I just can't stand it.
[13:48] <debrouxl> Oh, TI making new OS versions ? That might be good, if people who actually care about users are in charge.
[13:48] <BrandonW> It could also really be bad, if they hate us.
[13:49] <BrandonW> And want to patch and fix all the stuff we take advantage of.
[13:49] <nikky> Bet $5 that's what they did.
[13:49] <JenosaZX> "if"? Hasn't it been pretty much established that TI hates us and our meddling ingenuity? T_T;
[13:49] <BrandonW> The fact that they even attempted this pretty print and custom thing suggests they intend to obsolete our own applications.
[13:49] <BrandonW> Steal our own ideas.
[13:50] <BrandonW> Implement it in the OS themselves.
[13:50] <BrandonW> Which could be evil, or it could mean they're nice and want to help.
[13:50] <DrDnar> scared and are afraid of us doing it, obsoleting their own code
[13:50] <JenosaZX> I still think it's kind of a low blow but yeah it could be being nice.
[13:52] <DrDnar> They could save a lot of money by releasing the OS source and asking the community to code stuff.
[13:52] <BrandonW> They could never give the community that kind of trust.
[13:52] <BrandonW> They have to keep a hold on it because of all the security and anti-cheating stuff in it.
[13:52] <DrDnar> It's their loss.
[13:53] <debrouxl> All of which can be bypassed.
[13:53] <DrDnar> bwhaha
[13:53] <debrouxl> It's their loss indeed.
[13:53] <JenosaZX> Their in a niche and they intend to stay there. It's not really their loss. They still make money.
[13:53] <JenosaZX> *They're
[13:54] <debrouxl> Well, we'll see Real Soon Now (TM). And if the new OS really sucks, we might be able to get new articles on the places that recently made articles focused on tinkering with TI-* calcs.
[13:54] <DrDnar> True. If we did that, they wouldn't reduce the cost of their calcs. They'd just reap the profits.
[13:55] <JenosaZX> debrouxl is right. If the new OS causes a big stink, we have new allies in the media who could help us get the word out.
[13:55] <debrouxl> For maximum exposure, couple the release of Ndless with complaints (if need be, of course) about the breakage in the new OS.
[13:56] <BrandonW> Are we referring to it by name now?
[13:56] <JenosaZX> Referring to what, now?
[13:56] <debrouxl> Ndless ?
[13:56] <BrandonW> Yes.
[13:56] <JenosaZX> Pardon my being dense, but what is Ndless?
[13:57] <debrouxl> critor made a forum topic on TI-Bank that contains a description of your latest big project, which contains a mention of Ndless.
[13:57] <DrDnar> Nspire? Ndless?
[13:57] <BrandonW> The Nspire exploit is called Ndless.
[13:57] <BrandonW> I guess the cat's out of the bag now.
[13:57] <DrDnar> ahh
[13:57] <JenosaZX> Oh
[13:58] <BrandonW> My 84+/SE implementation of it is called Nspire8x.
[13:59] <critor> the latest big project? Nspire8x ?
[13:59] <DrDnar> haha
[13:59] <critor> :)
[13:59] <BrandonW> I'm assuming that's what you're referring to.
[14:01] <debrouxl> Yeah, that's what I'm referring to :)
[14:01] <critor> yeah, me too ;)
[14:01] <BrandonW> I guess it would be more appropriate to say that Nspire8x is the implementation of the NavNet protocol via usb8x which has a file browser and stuff, and also an implementation of Ndless as a menu option.
[14:02] <debrouxl> Yeah, definitely. critor's forum topic describes that nicely.
[14:02] <debrouxl> OK, have a good day / night everyone ;)
[14:02] <BrandonW> Good night.
[14:03] <critor> oh no.... I haven't understood everything about Nspire8x yet...
[14:03] <critor> good night
[14:07] * KermM (~KermM@wlc3.cooper.edu) has joined #ti
[14:09] <critor> Brandon... any idea about the meaning of MP ?
[14:09] <BrandonW> I haven't the slightest.
[14:09] <DrDnar> Military Police
[14:09] <critor> lol
[14:10] <BrandonW> Marketing Prototype.
[14:10] <DrDnar> They're coming.
[14:10] <E-J> member of parliament
[14:10] <player_> mega Phail :P
[14:11] <E-J> moottoripyörä
[14:11] * Buckeye (~Poweruser@c-24-16-240-132.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[14:12] <BrandonW> They added 96 BCALLs total.
[14:12] <critor> :)
[14:12] * Goplat (~goplat@adsl-69-107-73-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #ti
[14:13] <player_> mass production
[14:13] <BrandonW> That's an interestingo ne.
[14:13] <BrandonW> interesting one.*
[14:13] <@chronomex> hmmmm
[14:14] <player_> month(ly) project
[14:14] <BrandonW> I don't know what page 74h is, but this isn't the USB page it used to be.
[14:17] <critor> hi Goplat
[14:17] <Goplat> hi
[14:22] <BrandonW> Yeah, they moved the USB page to 75h.
[14:25] <BrandonW> It's looking very unlikely that they added a "receive USB data" BCALL.
[14:25] <BrandonW> But they HAVE reworked a LOT of stuff.
[14:25] <BrandonW> This is definitely going to take time.
[14:27] <critor> what's going to take time? disassembling?
[14:28] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[14:28] <SirCmpwn> what did i miss?
[14:28] <BrandonW> Yes, and seeing what they changed.
[14:29] <BrandonW> They've shuffled things around which have stayed constant for a long time.
[14:29] <BrandonW> They had to have been sitting/working on this for quite some time.
[14:30] <critor> yes... something like 3 years ? ;)
[14:30] <BrandonW> Does a list called "CNTRB" mean anything to anyone?
[14:31] <E-J> sounds like boy band from 90es
[14:31] <SirCmpwn> not to me
[14:31] <critor> no, nothing...
[14:32] <Tribal> connect read byte
[14:32] <Tribal> ?
[14:32] <Tribal> Oh wait, a list
[14:32] <Tribal> nvm
[14:32] <BrandonW> I thought it was some math/graph BASIC thing.
[14:33] <SirCmpwn> i worked with basic for 2 years before i started asm, and i dont recognize it
[14:34] <E-J> i worked with basic 4 to 5 years before i started java and c and that doesn't ring a bell
[14:34] <player_> no idea
[14:35] <BrandonW> The USB page is now shared with some context that uses it.
[14:35] <SirCmpwn> hey brandon, maybe you could email me that .8xu file and i can post it somewhere? i dont think im going under TIs microscope yet.
[14:35] <BrandonW> critor has it.
[14:36] <BrandonW> NOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
[14:36] <player_> ?
[14:36] <BrandonW> They fixed the stupid Write-to-Flash unlock exploit.
[14:36] <player_> so no more editing the certificate?
[14:36] <BrandonW> That's not the universal one, but still.
[14:37] <BrandonW> That kind of suggests they're paying attention to these unlock exploits.
[14:37] <SirCmpwn> critor? where?
[14:38] <BrandonW> I don't think they fixed the universal one.
[14:39] <E-J> BrandonW: so your work before their dmca was worth something, they actually fixed something
[14:39] <BrandonW> I can relax now, they didn't fix the universal unlock exploit.
[14:40] <BrandonW> There's really no way TO fix it, just screw with it.
[14:43] <SirCmpwn> is it possible they could re-lock it on every system inturrupt?
[14:43] * Goplat (~goplat@adsl-69-107-73-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) Quit (Time left until the Apocalypse: 27yrs 50wks 2days 5hrs 28mins 3secs)
[14:44] <BrandonW> Yeah, but it wouldn't help too much, you have to disable interrupts to unlock Flash anyway.
[14:44] <BrandonW> At that point, our exploit takes control, we do whatever we want, and re-enable interrupts whenever we feel like.
[14:44] <SirCmpwn> true.
[14:45] <BrandonW> If they actually did manage to fix all possible exploits, we could just fix to a standard place to put the unlock code, and patch the OS PC-side and re-sign it with that code.
[14:46] <BrandonW> shift to a standard place*
[14:46] <@chronomex> having keys makes things so much easier :D
[14:46] <BrandonW> :)
[14:47] <SirCmpwn> critor: are you listening?
[14:47] <@chronomex> speaking of, BrandonW, did you manage to mail off the keypad?
[14:47] <BrandonW> Yes.
[14:47] <BrandonW> critor may not want to give it out.
[14:47] <critor> yes I'mreading :)
[14:47] <@chronomex> I'll see about laser-etching a calculator cover and sending it to you :)
[14:48] <SirCmpwn> can you shoot me an email with the leaked os file?
[14:49] <critor> PM
[14:49] <SirCmpwn> yep
[14:52] <@chronomex> wtf, does epsstore no longer sell replacement black slidecases?
[14:54] <SirCmpwn> put a download of the file up: sircmpwn.pbworks.com it won't be there long so get it fast
[14:57] * efneTI86 sets mode: +v Tribal
[14:57] <critor> thanks for your courage sharing that file for all of us :)
[14:58] <Genolo> quick make a torrent
[14:58] <SirCmpwn> you are welcome. just dont tell anyone and get it quick
[14:58] <+Tribal> On it
[14:59] <@chronomex> SirCmpwn: where did you get it?
[14:59] <SirCmpwn> critor
[14:59] <SirCmpwn> he gave it to me
[14:59] <@chronomex> oh right
[14:59] * @chronomex starts composing a ticalc.org story
[15:00] <SirCmpwn> are you an admin on ticalc?
[15:00] <@chronomex> staff, yes
[15:00] <E-J> chronomex is admin on everything
[15:01] <@chronomex> http://www.ticalc.org/about/staff/duncans.html
[15:01] <SirCmpwn> sweet
[15:01] <@chronomex> so is nikky but he is a slacker
[15:01] <BrandonW> I found something.
[15:01] <SirCmpwn> we all are aware of nikkys fail
[15:01] <@chronomex> oh?
[15:01] <BrandonW> They have hard-coded references to GeoMastr, CtlgHelp, and so on.
[15:01] <SirCmpwn> BrandonW - dish
[15:01] <SirCmpwn> ooo they do?
[15:01] <BrandonW> Moment.
[15:02] <critor> no, they've dared?...
[15:02] <SirCmpwn> btw, im taking that file down at 3:30pm MST
[15:02] <SirCmpwn> ie in 26 minutes
[15:02] <BrandonW> They're probably preserving them on a special ON+ key reset.
[15:03] <critor> that seems right...
[15:07] * SirCmpwn giggles with excitement
[15:08] * TIFreak8x (~Drax@ip-69-27-59-214.slm.blueriver.net) has joined #ti
[15:11] <KermM> aww, no 2.53 article on ticalc.org? :(
[15:11] <SirCmpwn> hello TIFreak8x
[15:11] <BrandonW> chronomex is working on it.
[15:11] <SirCmpwn> and chronomex is composing the article
[15:11] <KermM> good stuff, BrandonW, SirCmpwn
[15:12] <Genolo> nnnnn
[15:12] <KermM> that's some pretty epic thievery from community work, though
[15:12] <SirCmpwn> I think i may monitor the traffic to my site and will keep it up as long as ti doesnt look at it.
[15:12] <KermM> as far as ideas and such
[15:12] <Genolo> i need to boot into windows and backup stuff
[15:12] <Genolo> someone try it and test stability
[15:12] <critor> chronomex, tell us as soon as your article is online
[15:12] <@chronomex> I'm not writing the article right now
[15:12] <critor> oh, sorry
[15:12] <TIFreak8x> hello
[15:12] <SirCmpwn> yes, please. ill write the article if you like
[15:12] <@chronomex> right now I'm trying to get up the excitement to take a shower
[15:12] <TIFreak8x> sorry, dealing with the last of laundry and such
[15:13] <SirCmpwn> im good at that kinda stuff
[15:13] <@chronomex> and then go see a crazy ex-girlfriend
[15:13] <@chronomex> SirCmpwn: go ahead, and when you get something good email it to me, duncans@ticalc
[15:13] <SirCmpwn> alrighty
[15:13] <@chronomex> also a link to your ticalc profile so I can properly format it
[15:13] <KermM> SirCmpwn, I'll be happy to proofread for you if you like
[15:13] <SirCmpwn> you have an email?\
[15:14] <BrandonW> I've done an initial pass through page 0, 7C, and 7D (the privileged pages) and haven't found anything Earth-shattering.
[15:14] <BrandonW> I imagine the truly scary stuff is in the display routines on the other pages.
[15:15] <TIFreak8x> have I missed something of importance? o.o
[15:15] <BrandonW> OS 2.53MP was leaked for the 84+/SE before its release on February 15th, and we're studying it.
[15:15] <BrandonW> Studying/spreading.
[15:16] <TIFreak8x> oooh XD
[15:16] <TIFreak8x> MP?
[15:16] <BrandonW> We don't know what it means yet.
[15:16] <@chronomex> the military police will come after you if you talk about it wrong
[15:16] <player_> then I guess they're coming for me
[15:16] <TIFreak8x> ah, interesting o.o
[15:17] <bsparks> I think the new features look nifty enough
[15:17] <player_> some
[15:17] <player_> They haven't added any program features...waot
[15:18] <player_> gaaah still is>( DS<(
[15:18] <bsparks> As long as my games still work, I'm happy
[15:19] <TIFreak8x> yes, would hate to go to all this effort on pokemon, and they change things so much that it fails hard =/
[15:19] <BrandonW> I'm really interested in the BASIC community's response to this.
[15:19] <BrandonW> And complaints about it, because I'd like to patch/fix it if possible.
[15:20] <bsparks> So far I don't see anything that breaks much.
[15:23] <critor> if you could patch it to be installable on the TI-83+... you would make lots of people happy ;)
[15:24] <@chronomex> mmm yeah
[15:24] <BrandonW> critor, I intend to.
[15:24] <BrandonW> I've always wanted to know why 2.x won't boot on an 83+/SE.
[15:24] <BrandonW> Well, it certainly can't work on an 83+.
[15:24] <BrandonW> But an 83+SE, possibly.
[15:25] <TIFreak8x> I am happy with 1.16 on my SE
[15:25] <BrandonW> 1.19 added a lot of things, it's comparable to 2.40.
[15:25] <BrandonW> I'd like to know what you find wrong with 1.19.
[15:26] <SirCmpwn> do we have a link to screens?
[15:26] <SirCmpwn> nvmd i found em
[15:26] <TIFreak8x> I never tried it, to be honest, I just found 1.16 to be very stable as things go, so why upgrade something that isn't really broke? Besides, this makes sure that my projects will be compatible to a certain point with some older OSes
[15:29] <KermM> chronomex, I proofed SirCmpwn's article
[15:30] <KermM> waiting for a Cemetech member to get some screenshots for ya, then I'll send it along
[15:32] <critor> I know that 2.x OSes don't boot on a 83+... but I've never tried with a 83+SE...
[15:33] <BrandonW> I have, it won't.
[15:33] <critor> same issue as the 83+ ?
[15:33] <critor> screen doesn't turn on or stays blank?
[15:34] <BrandonW> No, the 83+ simply doesn't have the space for it. The OS heavily relies on pages 74h-77h which are part of the archive memory on the 83+.
[15:34] <BrandonW> The 83+SE, I don't know, I haven't dug into it yet. I would suspect the additional hardware.
[15:34] <SirCmpwn> hey Brandon how many new bcalls do you think there are?
[15:34] <BrandonW> Either that or port 2.
[15:34] <critor> 96?
[15:34] <player_> brandon, I have a .rom file you can use
[15:34] <BrandonW> There are 96, which may or may not be intended for our use.
[15:34] <SirCmpwn> alright
[15:36] <KermM> haha, lots of bugs :D
[15:36] <critor> ?
[15:36] <player_> kerm, like what
[15:36] <KermM> it you go to catalog and return to the homescreen, there is an odd graphics glitch
[15:37] <player_> like pressing clear?
[15:37] <KermM> the cursor is at some weird location that doesn't correspond to any row or column
[15:37] <KermM> hmm, the Y= screen loads way slower than in the past
[15:37] <SirCmpwn> i changed the website (http://sircmpwn.pbworks.com) and included more stuff, including a .rom
[15:37] <player_> kerm, I don't get that glitch
[15:38] <KermM> player_, let me try to reproduce it
[15:38] <KermM> huh, I can't
[15:38] <KermM> I did some math on the homescreen, flipped through the Alpha-F[1-4] menus
[15:39] <player_> gotta go
[15:39] <KermM> then went to catalog, scrolled, and [clear]'d to the homescreen
[15:39] <KermM> cya player_
[15:39] <SirCmpwn> tkx player_
[15:39] <Will_W> are you playing with the new OS?
[15:39] <SirCmpwn> cya l8r
[15:39] <Will_W> cya player
[15:39] <TIFreak8x> SirCmpwn: be careful uploading roms, will get you chased after by TI
[15:39] <SirCmpwn> the rom is not staying for long
[15:39] <KermM> Will_W, yes
[15:39] <SirCmpwn> at 4pm MST i am removing the rom
[15:40] <TIFreak8x> also, people complaining about ticalc.org needing to be updated, and some of us agree, so we have started a discussion on omnimaga about possibilites to the projects section: http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?topic=1491.new#new
[15:41] <SirCmpwn> after consideration, the rom is going down in 2 mins. get it fast
[15:41] <TIFreak8x> wow, those screens look pretty nifty
[15:42] <TIFreak8x> I might update my 84+SE to that for fun
[15:42] <SirCmpwn> rom is offline
[15:43] <TIFreak8x> got it just in time I guess
[15:43] <SirCmpwn> nice. if anyone didnt get it, pm me
[15:45] * player_ (~thobson12@h69-131-217-81.cntral.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[15:45] <KermM> laptop battery dead, will send article and screenie in 10 mins, chronomex
[15:45] <BrandonW> There's a string called "Press + for +Tbl".
[15:45] <TIFreak8x> o.o
[15:45] <BrandonW> That feels new to me.
[15:45] <Buckeye> yeah for when in the tbl
[15:46] <Buckeye> it displays it on entry
[15:46] <TIFreak8x> I am becoming increasingly tempted to put this new os on my 84+..
[15:46] <BrandonW> On entry to the table?
[15:46] <Buckeye> yeah
[15:46] <BrandonW> I don't see it.
[15:46] <TIFreak8x> will it work on the normal 84+, or just the SE?
[15:46] <Buckeye> did you graph something?
[15:46] <BrandonW> It works on the 84+ and 84+SE.
[15:46] <TIFreak8x> because the 84+ has a crappy OS version on it anyways
[15:46] <BrandonW> Yes.
[15:47] <Will_W> If I had an 84+, I think I would put the latest 83+ os on it
[15:47] <Buckeye> i get a inverse text string on 2nd+table
[15:47] <Will_W> just to remove the fail
[15:47] <Buckeye> Press + for (tri)Tbl
[15:47] <BrandonW> On what OS?
[15:47] <Buckeye> 2.56MP
[15:47] <BrandonW> I was talking about older OSes.
[15:47] <TIFreak8x> my 84+ still has 2.21 XD
[15:47] <BrandonW> Do you mean 2.53MP?
[15:47] <Buckeye> ah i gotcha
[15:47] <Buckeye> yes thats what i mean
[15:49] <critor> 2.56MP will have CAS ;)
[15:49] * DJ_Omni (~omnimaga@modemcable079.94-131-66.mc.videotron.ca) has joined #ti
[15:49] <critor> hi DJ
[15:49] <DJ_Omni> I have to go eating soon, but good job TI! http://www.omnimaga.org/images/screenshots/reuben253.gif
[15:50] <@chronomex> hey there TIFreak8x, I didn't guarantee anything :)
[15:50] <DJ_Omni> oh hi critor nice to see you here
[15:50] <DJ_Omni> you should come more often cuz there's often Nspire talk here
[15:50] <@chronomex> TIFreak8x: it was more of a "I've been hoping to redo that section but I haven't had time/motivation, I'd love to have a few proposals"
[15:50] <critor> I'll try :)
[15:50] <@chronomex> :)
[15:51] * Goplat (~goplat@adsl-69-107-73-4.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) has joined #ti
[15:51] <DJ_Omni> we sometimes have some in our channel but 90% of the time it's just anime/starcraft discussion
[15:51] <critor> welcome back Goplat
[15:51] <SirCmpwn> critor - whats your email again?
[15:51] * DJ_Omni is gone
[15:51] <critor> -> MP
[15:51] <DJ_Omni> PM*
[15:52] <critor> thanks DJ
[15:52] <E-J> maybe he is going to inform military police (or any of those other MP:s)
[15:53] <TIFreak8x> lol
[15:53] <TIFreak8x> dangit :p
[15:53] * KermM (~KermM@wlc3.cooper.edu) Quit (Ping timeout: no data for 487 seconds)
[15:53] <TIFreak8x> chronomex: what language would it have to be written in?
[15:54] <@chronomex> I don't remember what our CGI scripts are written in
[15:54] <@chronomex> probably perl, don't worry about that thoguh
[15:55] <TIFreak8x> lol
[15:55] <TIFreak8x> well, I only know a bit of PHP.. was just gonna say, would be nice to know, might be able to offer help and such
[15:55] <TIFreak8x> but guess not :p
[15:55] <TIFreak8x> get Nikky to do it, I hear he just sleeps alot
[15:56] <@chronomex> heh
[15:56] <@chronomex> yeah no
[15:56] <@chronomex> we'll figure it out
[15:56] <TIFreak8x> lol, ok XD
[15:56] <@chronomex> but get me a writeup of the user interaction with this script and I'll look into it
[15:56] <@chronomex> it probably won't happen for a few weeks at least
[15:57] <TIFreak8x> *nods* wouldn't expect it to happen right away
[15:57] <@chronomex> magnus is sort of slow to respond, and I also have school
[15:57] <@chronomex> and two jobs
[15:57] <@chronomex> sounds pretty dismal, doesn't it?
[15:57] <TIFreak8x> and what do you mean by a writeup of user interaction? you mean what the author of the project sees, or what the person looking through the list sees?
[15:57] <TIFreak8x> chronomex: I have 3 jobs
[15:58] <TIFreak8x> and still not getting anything significantly paid off XD
[15:58] <@chronomex> WELL I HAVE FOUR NOW
[15:58] <TIFreak8x> XD
[15:58] <BrandonW> Number of jobs doesn't matter, it's what you do during them.
[15:58] <@chronomex> TIFreak8x: um, both, preferably
[15:58] <TIFreak8x> alright, should be fairly simple I guess..
[15:59] <@chronomex> rad
[15:59] <@chronomex> and no hurry
[15:59] <TIFreak8x> *nods* I have things going on, and actual progress going with pokemon purple, so yeah
[15:59] * @chronomex afk
[15:59] <@chronomex> wooo fry's
[15:59] <SirCmpwn> im gonna record a gif of the new stuff in v2.53, i know about the functions and i know about prettyprint and about mode, anything else?
[16:00] <BrandonW> I saw a "MATHPRINT" string in there, is that what's in the MODE menu?
[16:00] <Buckeye> new zoom functions?
[16:00] <Buckeye> yeah
[16:01] <BrandonW> I'm in the direct USB link protocol right now.
[16:01] <critor> yes Brandon
[16:02] <critor> in the MODE menu, you choose between MathPrint or Classic
[16:02] <SirCmpwn> its in the mode menu, yes. ill look at the new zoom stuff
[16:02] <SirCmpwn> too
[16:02] <critor> USB? have courage...
[16:02] <BrandonW> Yeah, it's way too much of a mess to find anything right now unless it's glaringly obvious.
[16:02] <SirCmpwn> good luck brandon
[16:02] <BrandonW> I need to look into how IDA Pro deals with symbols and labels and all.
[16:02] <BrandonW> And find some sort of smart way to include them all.
[16:03] <BrandonW> It would make OS version disassembling easier.
[16:03] <BrandonW> I'm not going to start serious code analysis until I figure that out.
[16:03] <BrandonW> I'm just telling IDA Pro what's code and what's not right now.
[16:04] * KermM (~KermM@cpe-66-65-60-191.nyc.res.rr.com) has joined #ti
[16:04] <TIFreak8x> IDA Pro?
[16:04] <BrandonW> A professional disassembler that everyone in the free world uses.
[16:04] <TIFreak8x> ah
[16:05] <BrandonW> Unless we have specific requests for things.
[16:05] <BrandonW> That we could dig into.
[16:05] <BrandonW> To see what changed.
[16:06] <BrandonW> They didn't fix the critical exploits and they've added some new (but not too exciting) stuff, so that's all I cared about.
[16:06] <TIFreak8x> I see
[16:06] <TIFreak8x> if they had wanted to fix exploits and such, they would have called you up and hired you :p
[16:07] <critor> lol
[16:07] <BrandonW> I have to wonder how they found that one exploit.
[16:07] <BrandonW> Possibly through disassembling one of the Nspire programs.
[16:07] <TIFreak8x> I mean, its like you know more about the 83+/84+ os than they do
[16:07] <SirCmpwn> BrandonW knows more about the os than anyone does ;)
[16:08] <TIFreak8x> I know he knows more than any of us simpletons :p
[16:08] * player_ (~thobson12@h69-131-217-81.cntral.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) has joined #ti
[16:09] <BrandonW> The code that deals with all the extra RAM pages is still there.
[16:12] <critor> anybody has tried with a revision H (or above) TI-84+ ?
[16:12] <critor> I suppose it doesn't change anything?
[16:12] <BrandonW> I'm sure it still works, the OS has never used the other 5 pages.
[16:13] <KermM> chronomex, sent you article and screenshots
[16:13] <TIFreak8x> well, here goes with the OS update..
[16:14] <BrandonW> That "IsDevice" string is STILL in there.
[16:14] <player_> wtf is stat diagnostics
[16:16] * Will_W (~will@z65-50-104-16.ips.direcpath.com) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[16:16] * Will (~will@z65-50-104-16.ips.direcpath.com) has joined #ti
[16:17] * Will is now known as Will_W
[16:19] <TIFreak8x> you know tho
[16:20] <TIFreak8x> it is about freaking time they used those F# keys for menu type things like the 86
[16:20] <KermM> 2.53 screenies, if anyone wants: http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93691#93691
[16:20] <TIFreak8x> I love the 86 menu system
[16:20] <BrandonW> TIFreak8x, their applications have been doing that for years.
[16:20] <TIFreak8x> yes, but I would like that as a native OS feature
[16:21] <TIFreak8x> oooo~ lots of new math commands
[16:21] <TIFreak8x> randIntNoRep( ?
[16:21] <TIFreak8x> the hell? XD
[16:22] <player_> no repitition
[16:22] <player_> wow, spellcheck
[16:22] <KermM> repetition *
[16:22] <BrandonW> Yeah, I saw that.
[16:22] <KermM> MP is "MathPrint", btw
[16:22] <KermM> in case no one else got that yet :)
[16:23] <TIFreak8x> randIntNoRep(1,9 creates a 9 element list with random numbers, 1-9
[16:23] <critor> sure of that?
[16:23] <BrandonW> Hm...
[16:23] <KermM> critor, 75%? :)
[16:24] <KermM> Considering that the MODE option to turn the pretty-printing on and off is MathPrint, that's my guess
[16:24] <DJ_Omni> if anyone is testing on a real 84+ and also has a 83+ or 83+SE, could he try sending 84+ programs (without any new functions) to it?
[16:24] <DJ_Omni> i wonder if they kept backward compatibility
[16:25] <critor> there are new functions?
[16:25] <TIFreak8x> yeah
[16:26] <DJ_Omni> i mean the alerady existing 84+ functions not in the 83+
[16:26] <BrandonW> DJ_Omni, the OS has long had the ability to support that through program versioning.
[16:26] <BrandonW> They won't transfer to older models.
[16:26] <SirCmpwn> stat diagnostics are used for getting more statistics information with 1 and 2 Var Stats
[16:26] <BrandonW> Or if they do...
[16:26] <BrandonW> It won't execute them.
[16:26] <DJ_Omni> ok
[16:26] <DJ_Omni> I was worried it would no longer be possible to send 84+ programs to a 83+ x.x
[16:26] <DJ_Omni> we never know with TI
[16:26] <+Tribal> http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/5344559
[16:27] <critor> DJ, it's still working
[16:27] <DJ_Omni> pirate
[16:27] <DJ_Omni> ok
[16:28] <TIFreak8x> ZFrac 1/# I don't remember seeing this on the older OSes
[16:28] <TIFreak8x> viewed in catalog
[16:28] <DJ_Omni> TIFreak8x so far there's compatibility issues with some BASIC games at least
[16:28] <critor> and in Zoom
[16:28] <DJ_Omni> Bsparks might not be too happy
[16:28] <player_> what games?
[16:28] <DJ_Omni> so far i only tried Pyoro and Reuben Quest: The Lost Mirror
[16:28] <TIFreak8x> I am about to find out with pokemon
[16:28] <critor> BASIC?
[16:28] <DJ_Omni> Pyoro works perfectly, MirageOs too
[16:28] <DJ_Omni> Omnicalc as well
[16:28] <DJ_Omni> and Celtic III
[16:29] <DJ_Omni> but Reuben has glitches in the intro
[16:29] <DJ_Omni> related to reverse video text http://www.omnimaga.org/images/screenshots/reuben253.gif
[16:29] <DJ_Omni> specifically on the home screen
[16:29] <DJ_Omni> so I have worries about The Reign Of Legends 2 and Illusiat 2004
[16:30] <DJ_Omni> what i think is that compatibility issues might mostly be home screen related
[16:31] <BrandonW> Yeah, they had to have completely butchered the code behind that.
[16:31] <BrandonW> It's NOT as easy as it might appear to implement.
[16:32] <DJ_Omni> it seems they wanted the 83+ home screen to be like the 73
[16:32] <BrandonW> There's an "ANSWERS:" string.
[16:32] <BrandonW> It might have something to do with stat diagnostics.
[16:32] <DJ_Omni> bah
[16:33] <DJ_Omni> resetting the entire memory crashed wabbitemu D:
[16:33] <BrandonW> That's interesting.
[16:33] * Tahben (~chatzilla@ip70-162-174-179.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #ti
[16:33] <SirCmpwn> i made a .gif of all the new features if anyone is interested
[16:33] <DJ_Omni> I wonder if I have a save file of ROL2 somewhere
[16:34] <DJ_Omni> i know a spot where the game may glitch on this OS
[16:34] <TIFreak8x> here goes with pokemon.. wonder how well it works
[16:34] <TIFreak8x> omg..
[16:34] <TIFreak8x> ugh
[16:35] <player_> what>
[16:35] <BrandonW> I'm interested to see whether we get something similar on the Nspire's 84+SE emulator, or if this just complements the existing 84+/SE OS.
[16:35] <BrandonW> Or if we get something like this on the 83+/SE.
[16:35] <TIFreak8x> screen writing is horridly slow
[16:35] <Tahben> SirCmpwn - url?
[16:35] <TIFreak8x> feels like I am trying to play pokemon on an 82 =/
[16:35] <player_> I forot to ask, did anyone check the speeds of basic programs compared to the original>
[16:36] <player_> or has tifreak just done that
[16:36] <TIFreak8x> I just did that
[16:36] <player_> epic slow
[16:36] <TIFreak8x> screen writing is slow
[16:36] <BrandonW> In the disassembly, I see an option to hide the box you get on the memory reset screen.
[16:36] <TIFreak8x> VERY slow
[16:36] <BrandonW> Is that real?
[16:36] <BrandonW> And if so, I'd like to know where that's being stored.
[16:36] <TIFreak8x> This is unplayable..
[16:37] <DJ_Omni> TIFreak8x is Output very slow too?
[16:37] <TIFreak8x> yes, very much so
[16:37] <DJ_Omni> Illusiat 81 seemed a bit slow actually
[16:37] <DJ_Omni> but it only uses Disp
[16:37] <DJ_Omni> i am sure it was faster before, tho
[16:37] <critor> Disp is very slow, I do confirm it
[16:37] <critor> yes it was
[16:37] <TIFreak8x> so is Text(
[16:37] <DJ_Omni> I mean
[16:37] <KermM> press Y=
[16:38] <KermM> and watch it load line-by-line :/
[16:38] <DJ_Omni> 2x slower i think
[16:38] <critor> if you disable MathPrint, Disp is much faster
[16:38] <TIFreak8x> Dear TI, do NOT release this OS. Fix yer dang code. Thank you.
[16:38] <critor> more than 2x sincerly...
[16:38] <DJ_Omni> oh it can be disabled?
[16:38] <critor> yes
[16:38] <DJ_Omni> if it can be then good
[16:38] <KermM> critor == TI programmer or no?
[16:38] <critor> in MODEmenu, page 2
[16:38] <player_> ooh, it almost seems faster than the original
[16:38] <critor> choose Classic
[16:38] <TIFreak8x> I will have to try that
[16:38] <DJ_Omni> KermM he's from a french TI site
[16:38] <KermM> DJ_Omni, gotcha
[16:38] <DJ_Omni> he hasnt been around for long
[16:38] <KermM> does anyone know how we got it in the first place? :)
[16:39] <DJ_Omni> but he contributed a lot
[16:39] <KermM> ty DJ_Omni
[16:39] <BrandonW> Drawing to the screen like this is inherently slow, they should've known better.
[16:39] <SirCmpwn> sorry for the wait http://sircmpwn.pbworks.com/ti
[16:39] <KermM> thanks critor!
[16:39] <player_> wait a sec
[16:39] <DJ_Omni> this is a bit why i wanted him to come in this chan eventually :P
[16:39] <TIFreak8x> Text( is still slower, even with 'Classic' set
[16:39] <BrandonW> I'm in the parsing code now.
[16:39] <DJ_Omni> it seemed like the french community was anti-IRC x.x
[16:40] <player_> wasn't there one more thing on the first page of the mode menu?
[16:40] * Tahben clicks through
[16:40] <player_> in the other one
[16:40] <DJ_Omni> but again, french people's only TI IRC experience is Kevin Kofler channel...
[16:40] <critor> bad experience... ?
[16:40] <DJ_Omni> well
[16:40] <player_> idk, text seems fine
[16:40] <DJ_Omni> 5 Omnimaga user got banned when they came there once
[16:40] <DJ_Omni> even thought they said nothing
[16:40] <TIFreak8x> trust me player_, it is slower ><
[16:40] <Tahben> who?
[16:41] <DJ_Omni> I don,t remember all, but I know Bfr, Cure777 and Halifax did I think
[16:41] <Tahben> usb features?
[16:41] <DJ_Omni> oh well
[16:41] <critor> Output(1,1,...) is much slower too while MathPrint is On
[16:42] <player_> oh, do you mean text is slow on MP
[16:42] <critor> (as there was no line change, I thought it could have been the same... but no)
[16:42] <DJ_Omni> so i guess BASIC coders now need to warn people in their readmes to turn mathprint off
[16:42] <nikky> Discussion of inter-channel rivalries is probably not a good topic here.
[16:42] <DJ_Omni> could that mean that reuben will work fine with mathprint off?
[16:42] <player_> if they upgrade
[16:42] <DJ_Omni> nikky ok :P
[16:42] <DJ_Omni> I will try reuben again with the feature turned off
[16:42] <critor> Disp and Output() are much slower with MathPrint Enable... ("much" means far more than 2x)
[16:43] <DJ_Omni> but first ROL2
[16:43] <SirCmpwn> just checked - you can programmatically turn off mathprint
[16:43] <TIFreak8x> string manipulation is slower in this OS
[16:43] <player_> yes, definilty
[16:43] <player_> for the output
[16:44] <player_> btw, any new sting functions
[16:44] <critor> but I don't see such a big difference while writing to the graphic screen
[16:44] <DJ_Omni> lol ROL2 alerady glitches
[16:44] <critor> with Text() for exemple
[16:44] <DJ_Omni> it seems like the additional row of pixels below Text is turned ON all the time
[16:45] <DJ_Omni> even if you follow the instructions to disable it on TIBD
[16:45] <DJ_Omni> http://tibasicdev.wikidot.com/text
[16:45] <+Tribal> What does 'DEC Answer' in catelog do?
[16:45] <TIFreak8x> sets answers to decimals I guess
[16:45] <player_> idk, DEC by itself changes the mode to dec
[16:45] <DJ_Omni> and now wabbit crashed again x.x
[16:46] <critor> So the big problem is really writing to the home screen... and all text games...
[16:46] <DJ_Omni> yeah
[16:46] <DJ_Omni> and writing to graph screen
[16:46] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #ti
[16:46] <DJ_Omni> i just tried ROL2
[16:46] <critor> there's a difference to the graph screen?
[16:46] <DJ_Omni> yeah
[16:46] <DJ_Omni> but wabbitemu crashed again
[16:47] <TIFreak8x> yes, for some reason when it starts to post in a line for Text(, it starts slow then is fast
[16:47] <TIFreak8x> I don't get that.. <<
[16:47] <KermM> whoa, abs bars?
[16:47] <TIFreak8x> string manipulation and outputting seems slower
[16:47] <DJ_Omni> TIFreak8x it also erases a row of pixel below (or turn it black)
[16:47] <TIFreak8x> reall? o.o
[16:47] <KermM> oh noes! :(
[16:47] <TIFreak8x> really*
[16:47] <TIFreak8x> I am not having that trouble
[16:47] <KermM> that will ruin many many Text(-based games
[16:48] <DJ_Omni> strange
[16:48] <TIFreak8x> I am running on hardware tho
[16:48] <DJ_Omni> it's turned ON when accessing a TI-84+ menu
[16:48] <player_> what is "Y fact" in the vars->window menu
[16:48] <DJ_Omni> so you have to do the TIBD trick
[16:48] <player_> tibd?
[16:48] <TIFreak8x> Well, Pokemon itself seems to work.. as does Celtic2 and Resource..
[16:48] <DJ_Omni> The cause is a system option which is turned on when accessing the new MODE menu, and turned off when accessing the table, matrix editor, or list editor.
[16:48] <DJ_Omni> but now
[16:48] <DJ_Omni> it is no longer turned off when accessing these 3...
[16:48] <TIFreak8x> its just a touch on the slow side...
[16:49] <+Tribal> Oh hey look
[16:49] <+Tribal> randIntNoRep(
[16:49] <DJ_Omni> TIFreak8x how fast does your game runs with mathprint disabled?
[16:49] <player_> do we get to use little alpha keys whenever we want now?
[16:49] <TIFreak8x> walking around the map is.. I don't know, like running on a normal 83+
[16:49] <TIFreak8x> maybe just a hair faster
[16:49] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:50] <critor> Writing to the home screen seems to be between 3x and 4x slower
[16:50] <critor> for DJ-Omnimaga's games, it's great... (ironic)
[16:50] <player_> yeah
[16:50] <TIFreak8x> I dislike the error message it posts when I break from the game.. <<
[16:51] <player_> same here
[16:51] <BrandonW> What is it?
[16:51] <TIFreak8x> it just says Error
[16:51] <TIFreak8x> its annoying =/
[16:51] <TIFreak8x> just dumps it on the home screen
[16:51] <BrandonW> That's what the 73 does.
[16:51] <BrandonW> They obviously stole this code from it.
[16:51] <TIFreak8x> I know that
[16:51] <TIFreak8x> but this isn't the 73 XD
[16:51] <TIFreak8x> it doesn't need that function
[16:51] <SirCmpwn> same proccessor :P
[16:52] * Ti-newb (~tinewbti@66.222.200.47) has joined #ti
[16:52] * Ti-newb (~tinewbti@66.222.200.47) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:52] <TIFreak8x> I am glad they didn't set our text in a silly menu like the 73 =P
[16:52] <TIFreak8x> that would be bloody annoying
[16:53] <TIFreak8x> I can say with certainy, I still enjoy my 83+SE over the 84+ line :p
[16:53] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #ti
[16:53] <player_> except the usb cable
[16:54] <DrDnar> No more P2P: pws.cablespeed.com/tehblueblur/ti83p/84PSE_253.zip
[16:54] <TIFreak8x> umm
[16:54] <TIFreak8x> I don't use the usb cable
[16:54] <TIFreak8x> at all
[16:54] <TIFreak8x> I tried when I first got it
[16:54] <TIFreak8x> but I started running into more and more problems with TI Connect talking with it
[16:54] <player_> brb
[16:55] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[16:55] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #ti
[16:55] <BrandonW> Quick, where's a link to the screenshots?
[16:55] <DrDnar> http://sircmpwn.pbworks.com/Leaked-OS
[16:55] <calcdude> what are we talking about?
[16:55] <calcdude> oh
[16:55] <DrDnar> Leaked OS 2.53MP
[16:56] <DJ_Omni> so far
[16:56] <DJ_Omni> only one problem detected in ROL2
[16:56] <calcdude> omg is this real?
[16:57] * Tahben (~chatzilla@ip70-162-174-179.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
[16:57] <player_> yep
[16:57] <BrandonW> It's real alright.
[16:57] <DrDnar> You can download the 8XU yourself.
[16:57] <player_> I made the .rom for it too
[16:57] <DrDnar> .ROM? Where?
[16:57] <+Tribal> torrent
[16:57] <player_> umm
[16:57] <DrDnar> And here I was going to write a Python script to update my existing ROM.
[16:57] <DrDnar> Actually, I can use ROM8X to make a new one.
[16:58] <DrDnar> I'd nearly forgotten about ROM8X.
[16:58] <+Tribal> mhmm
[16:58] <player_> thats what I used
[16:58] <TIFreak8x> time for a new backup of the project before I go updating it more..
[16:59] <calcdude> ... ok, many have asked this: where can I get it?
[16:59] <SirCmpwn> calcdude: pm
[16:59] <DJ_Omni> http://xlib.mtv-music-generator.com/rol2title253.gif
[16:59] <DJ_Omni> now that i look at it
[17:00] <DJ_Omni> how come only some parts have that black row of pixels and not the rest?
[17:00] <player_> sorry, what is this?
[17:00] <SirCmpwn> what is the link ?
[17:00] <player_> yes
[17:01] <DrDnar> Why does the Y= screen take so long to draw?
[17:02] <player_> mine doesn't
[17:02] <BrandonW> This might be an attempt to completely phase out the 73.
[17:02] <BrandonW> And it's also even more reason to create our own OS.
[17:02] <calcdude> explain
[17:02] <critor> Y= screen writing is slower when MathPrint is On
[17:02] <+Tribal> DrDnar, it only does when
[17:02] <+Tribal> crap
[17:02] <DrDnar> Woah!
[17:02] <calcdude> i don't feel like thinking
[17:03] <DrDnar> Summation? logBASE?
[17:03] <+Tribal> yep
[17:03] <DrDnar> Will this break Catalog Help?
[17:03] <critor> every text-writing is 3x to 4x slower whild MathPrint is On
[17:03] <player_> wait, what parts are like catalog help?
[17:03] <DrDnar> I bet they won't update it.
[17:03] <DrDnar> No, no, I'm just wondering if it'll break it.
[17:04] <critor> hum...
[17:04] <critor> I totally forgot
[17:04] <DrDnar> This . . . feels wrong.
[17:04] <BrandonW> I really doubt it, because the OS will preserve Catalog Help on reset.
[17:04] <player_> dr dnar, what do you mean?
[17:04] <DrDnar> Well, the "help" won't work on the new tokens. And TI won't update it.
[17:05] <critor> wait...
[17:05] <critor> when I received the OS, there was an attached CatalogHelp application with it...
[17:05] <BrandonW> I'm sure it was coded to ignore anything it doesn't understand.
[17:05] <DrDnar> Did they even update it for the new TI-84+ tokens>
[17:05] <critor> may be it has been updated
[17:05] <DrDnar> Like chkTimer
[17:05] <critor> I haven't tried yet.
[17:05] <BrandonW> critor, spread it around.
[17:05] <critor> ok
[17:05] <BrandonW> See if it's different from the one on the web site.
[17:05] <critor> I'm sending it to you
[17:06] <calcdude> how many progs and apps will this break?
[17:06] <critor> totally forgot to share that, sorry ;)
[17:06] <SirCmpwn> wow. we distributed this like an hour ago and people are already breaking it lol
[17:07] <DrDnar> They screwed up the clock.
[17:07] <DrDnar> Now it takes ten times longer to find out what the time is.
[17:07] <critor> Brandon, it's sent
[17:08] <DJ_Omni> [19:02:55] <player_> sorry, what is this?
[17:08] <SirCmpwn> alright, what happened? i have been on other channels
[17:08] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) Quit (Quit: http://chat.efnet.org (EOF))
[17:08] <DJ_Omni> were you replying to me?
[17:09] <+Tribal> DrDnar, no it doesn't
[17:09] <+Tribal> Do you have MathPrint enabled?
[17:09] <DrDnar> You have to scroll through the MODE menu to the second page to get the friggin' time.
[17:10] <+Tribal> press up
[17:10] <+Tribal> [MODE] -> [UP_KEY]
[17:10] <BrandonW> http://brandonw.net/crap/ctlghelp.8xk Somebody see if this is newer/different than the one on education.ti.com.
[17:10] <DrDnar> Still takes two keypresses.
[17:10] <+Tribal> gladly
[17:11] <DrDnar> TI Vista, anyone?
[17:11] * Dan_E (~denglende@c-98-218-79-103.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[17:12] <BrandonW> Dan_E, OS 2.53MP for the 84+/SE leaked.
[17:12] <+Tribal> BrandonW
[17:12] <+Tribal> That's v1.1
[17:12] <BrandonW> It adds a 73ish interface.
[17:12] <+Tribal> On there site
[17:12] <+Tribal> It's 1.0
[17:12] <BrandonW> Horribly slow, disassembling now.
[17:12] <BrandonW> Fixed some exploits, important ones still there.
[17:13] <DrDnar> What'd they fix?
[17:13] <Dan_E> Brandon: Interesting. New B_CALLs?
[17:13] <BrandonW> 96.
[17:13] <Dan_E> That's a bunch. Let me know if you want me to read any code :)
[17:13] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) has joined #ti
[17:13] <BrandonW> I'm working on an IDA Pro disassembly right now.
[17:13] <BrandonW> They moved USB code from 74h to 75h.
[17:13] <SirCmpwn> calcdude: welcome back
[17:13] <calcdude> yes.
[17:14] <calcdude> another question that many have asked: why is mathprint slow as crap?
[17:14] <BrandonW> Because TI sucks.
[17:14] <SirCmpwn> i always forget - what key gets you catalog help?
[17:14] <BrandonW> The theory is that the MP in the version is MathPrint, which is apparently the name of this 73ish interface.
[17:14] <BrandonW> I think it's +.
[17:14] <DJ_Omni> oh wow
[17:14] <+Tribal> Yes
[17:14] <+Tribal> it is
[17:14] <DJ_Omni> Wabbitemu won't even accept Illusiat 2004 files
[17:15] <player_> catalog help doesn't work on mine, it gives error version
[17:15] <KermM> BrandonW, indeed
[17:15] <SirCmpwn> crap how do you type that in wabbitemu?
[17:15] <calcdude> Who believes they'll optimize it!
[17:15] <BrandonW> player_, what does? 1.0 when you send it to 2.53MP?
[17:15] * calcdude is sarcastic
[17:15] <Dan_E> Did they implement it as just a new context? I can't imagine they actually modified the old Homescreen context or it would probably break some BASIC stuff, no?
[17:15] <BrandonW> They've reworked quite a bit of stuff, and yes, it seems they've broken some BASIC stuff.
[17:15] <player_> for instance
[17:15] <BrandonW> I don't think it's a new context.
[17:16] <calcdude> delta y seems to be gone
[17:16] <BrandonW> But I'm nowhere near a point where I can say for sure yet.
[17:16] <SirCmpwn> how do you type "+" in wabbitemu? never had the need to before
[17:16] <KermM> you mean the numpad one?
[17:16] <player_> idk sircmpwn, others: http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?topic=1487.msg21327;topicseen#new
[17:16] <Dan_E> I wrote an application used the TI-73's pretty print engine once. It was really messy.
[17:16] <Dan_E> -used+using
[17:16] <BrandonW> An application can specify its minimum supported OS version, and v1.1 of Catalog Help probably specifies 2.53MP.
[17:16] <BrandonW> Really? I'm amazed you were able to rip that out.
[17:17] <Dan_E> Yeah, it was when i was working for TI.
[17:17] <BrandonW> Or that it's possible, I mean.
[17:17] <Dan_E> So they gave me some documentation on it.
[17:17] <BrandonW> In a way, I'm almost glad I never worked for them.
[17:17] <Dan_E> But it was still really really messy.
[17:17] <SirCmpwn> KermM: yes
[17:18] <DrDnar> New tokens: AUTO Answer, CLASSIC, DEC Answer, >F<>D, FRAC Anser, logBASE(, MATHPRINT, n/d, >n/d<>Un/D, randIntNoRep(, remainder(, summation <sigma>(, Un/d, ZFrac1/2, ZFrac1/3, ZFrac1/4, ZFrac1/5, ZFrac1/8, ZFrac1/10, ZQuadrant1,
[17:18] <BrandonW> This makes you wonder what happens when you put Catalog Help 1.0 on a 2.53MP. Somebody find out.
[17:18] <player_> already done
[17:18] <player_> it gives error version
[17:18] <BrandonW> That might be why it's hard-coded into the OS.
[17:19] <BrandonW> To check the version.
[17:19] <DrDnar> The OS has a special provision for Catelog Help?
[17:19] <BrandonW> That's pretty horrible.
[17:19] <BrandonW> Yes.
[17:19] <+Tribal> the first three arn't in Catelog Help
[17:19] <BrandonW> Well, an application called "CtlgHelp" to be precise.
[17:19] <+Tribal> The rest probably arnt either
[17:19] <player_> how do you get catalog help?
[17:19] <Dan_E> It has a hook used by an app.
[17:19] <DrDnar> The lossage builds.
[17:19] <BrandonW> player_, did you get this simply by transferring it, or by running it?
[17:19] <player_> oh
[17:20] <player_> running, I had it on my calc to begin with
[17:20] <BrandonW> Running or installing?
[17:20] <player_> installingh
[17:20] <Dan_E> randIntNoRep is fun. That will save people a bunch of coding in BASIC assuming it does what it sounds like.
[17:20] <BrandonW> That's a different story, like Dan said.
[17:20] <player_> ?
[17:20] <Dan_E> logBASE is for lazy/stupid people I would guess.
[17:20] <Dan_E> But the fraction tokens look a lot like the 73 stuff.
[17:20] <BrandonW> The hook is probably what's checking the version.
[17:21] <player_> omnicalc works
[17:21] <player_> well, installs
[17:21] <player_> xlib installs too
[17:21] <DrDnar> The ZFractions are kind of cool.
[17:21] <player_> app4math works
[17:22] <player_> cabamap works
[17:22] <player_> chipschallenge does
[17:22] <calcdude> So, new in this version: Slow mathprint and related, some random new functions...
[17:22] <calcdude> typical ti
[17:22] <player_> brb
[17:22] <player_> lol calcdude
[17:23] <DJ_Omni> calcdude yup, and compatibilities issues, like with some older OSes
[17:23] <calcdude> ok, this is _not_ being sent to my calc.
[17:23] <DJ_Omni> the issue is that
[17:23] <calcdude> ?
[17:23] <DJ_Omni> new calcs will prbly eventually come with this OS
[17:23] <calcdude> donwgrade!
[17:23] <calcdude> *downgrade
[17:23] <DJ_Omni> and finding a copy of the old OS online is not that easy
[17:24] <DJ_Omni> i mean for the average user
[17:24] <BrandonW> TI no longer sends you old ones when asked.
[17:24] <calcdude> -this is what we are for-
[17:24] <BrandonW> It's illegal for us to distribute them.
[17:24] <Genolo> what there are no old os's on ti's site?
[17:24] <DJ_Omni> yeah what BrandonW said
[17:24] <DrDnar> I like the ZFractions.
[17:24] <calcdude> really? this is sad
[17:24] <KermM> calcdude, don't forget the "shortcut" menus
[17:24] <BrandonW> There have never been, Genolo.
[17:24] <DJ_Omni> on french sites you can find them, tho
[17:24] <DJ_Omni> like Espace TI-83 Plus
[17:24] <DJ_Omni> they only have 1.12 through 1.16, tho
[17:25] <DJ_Omni> Idk if it's illegal in france
[17:25] <Dan_E> There was something different about how the home screen was handled on the 73 ... I'm trying to remember what it was. I think blank spots in the homescreen aren't displayed with empty characters but are instead bitmapped clears.
[17:25] <Dan_E> Which did weird things with trying to display inverse characters.
[17:25] <SirCmpwn> English website with every calculator OS ever: http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fti.bank.free.fr%2Findex.php%3Fmod%3Darchives%26ac%3Dcat%26id%3DOS&sl=auto&tl=en
[17:25] <calcdude> what is MTNH?
[17:25] <Dan_E> That may affect some BASIC (or possibly assembly programs) if it's the case on this new OS as well.
[17:26] <Dan_E> (Ones that display inverse characters at least)
[17:26] <player_> graph3d does not work
[17:26] <DJ_Omni> x.x
[17:26] <SirCmpwn> if you run a program and it exits from an error, it says "Error" instead of "Done", perhaps there are more of these kinds of things?
[17:26] <BrandonW> That's originally a 73 thing.
[17:26] <DJ_Omni> ya
[17:27] <Dan_E> player: I would check to see if TI's graphing apps work (e.g. inequality grapher and interactive graphing). If so, then 3D graphing is probably fixable without too much craziness.
[17:27] <calcdude> seriously. Alpha-F4. what is MTNH?
[17:27] <Dan_E> Because they're built off mostly the same hooks.
[17:27] <critor> not every SirCmpwn... "many" would be a better word ;) we're still missing many OSes...
[17:27] <calcdude> *Alpha-F3
[17:27] <DrDnar> matrix
[17:28] <player_> start up app works
[17:28] <SirCmpwn> well, all the ones that matter ;)
[17:28] <DJ_Omni> This is Illusiat 2004-1 on current OSes: http://xlib.mtv-music-generator.com/i2004on241.gif
[17:28] <DJ_Omni> This is Illusiat 2004-1 on OS 2.35MP: http://xlib.mtv-music-generator.com/i2004on235.gif
[17:28] <DJ_Omni> ignore the glitched logo at the end, this is Wabbitemu fault
[17:28] <player_> is illusiat in french or something
[17:29] <SirCmpwn> well, all the ones that matter ;)
[17:29] <DJ_Omni> just the 2004 one
[17:29] <SirCmpwn> only the ones that matter ;)
[17:29] <DJ_Omni> 2004 is a remake of Illusiat 1, 2, 3 and 4 and hasn't been translated yet
[17:29] <Dan_E> DJ_Omni: Oh, that's exactly what I was talking about with the inverse font on screen clears.
[17:29] <SirCmpwn> just the important ones ;)
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[17:29] <SirCmpwn> just the ones that matter ;)
[17:29] <DJ_Omni> Dan_E yup. did u saw the ROL2 screenshot too? Something else happens too related to fonts
[17:29] <DJ_Omni> SirCmpwn why do you keep spamming this?
[17:30] <calcdude> sorry for asking too many times, what is MTNH?
[17:30] <player_> ohh, omnicalc fonts
[17:30] <bsparks> Omnicalc doesn't maater :p
[17:30] <SirCmpwn> i had an error with my client, it didnt look like it was sending. my bad.\
[17:30] <TIFreak8x> don't think anyone knows just yet
[17:30] <player_> I don't have any fonts
[17:30] <DJ_Omni> Dan_E http://xlib.mtv-music-generator.com/rol2title253.gif notice the small black line below the copyright
[17:31] <DJ_Omni> bsparks well that's your opinion but some games like Reuben Quest uses it because it was all that could do BASIC grayscale back in the days
[17:31] <player_> wtf is with that line
[17:31] <calcdude> what's the purpose of a dysfunctional shortcut menu?
[17:31] <DJ_Omni> I mean flickerless
[17:31] <TIFreak8x> to make it look pretty and make it seem like TI still updates their OS
[17:31] <Dan_E> DJ_Omni: Some of that should be easily fixable by just clearing the screen to black before displaying (in the first example anyway). Perhaps not in the second.
[17:32] <player_> by update, you mean worsen
[17:32] <TIFreak8x> player_: yup
[17:32] <calcdude> i reassert that this is a good reason to create our own OS
[17:32] <player_> lol
[17:32] <bsparks> I'm curious to play around with this OS
[17:32] <player_> are you working with sircmpwn?
[17:32] <player_> I wanna freak my teacher out with it
[17:33] <calcdude> lol
[17:33] <player_> someone make an OS that simulates an 89 pleas
[17:33] <player_> someone make an OS that simulates an 89 please
[17:33] <DJ_Omni> Dan_E yeah prbly
[17:33] <TIFreak8x> player_: tell your teach you had a visitor from the future, and they gave you that XD
[17:33] <SirCmpwn> player_: there is a half-assed one called csx
[17:33] <player_> nah, I'll say I made it (she'll believe me cause it looks so bad)
[17:33] <SirCmpwn> that is the focus of it
[17:33] <player_> yeah, I saw that it does suck
[17:34] <player_> I wish I could switch OS's
[17:34] <SirCmpwn> you just did, didn't you?
[17:34] <player_> without coming home and transferring a new one
[17:34] <SirCmpwn> oh.
[17:34] <player_> cbl/cbr still work?
[17:34] <SirCmpwn> like anyone has a cbl/cbr ;P
[17:34] <player_> brandon, don't you
[17:35] <BrandonW> I have a CBL and CBL2, yes.
[17:35] <BrandonW> No CBR/CBR2.
[17:35] <player_> can you test 'em?
[17:35] <Dan_E> I have a CBR, a CBL2, and a LabPro
[17:35] <DrDnar> Well, my text editor isn't broken, but that's only because it uses almost no OS functions.
[17:35] <Dan_E> But not a CBR2
[17:35] <BrandonW> I'm trying my best to get this disassembly done before I have to leave for owrk.
[17:35] <BrandonW> work.*
[17:35] <player_> oh, carry on :P
[17:35] <DrDnar> Did you get any snow?
[17:36] <Dan_E> I got 2 feet :)
[17:36] <SirCmpwn> Brandon i can just disassemble it if you need to leave
[17:36] <DJ_Omni> BrandonW btw isn't it illegal to use TI's fonts in your own OS?
[17:36] <BrandonW> Possibly, I don't really care. :) They can take me to court and prove it.
[17:36] <DJ_Omni> again, Casio and HP had simialr fonts
[17:36] <DJ_Omni> similar*
[17:36] <player_> then add or remove one pixel in a random letter
[17:37] <DJ_Omni> Casio's are pretty close actually
[17:37] <E-J> there can't be many fonts to do in those pixels
[17:37] <BrandonW> Exactly.
[17:38] <BrandonW> I do heavily borrow from the OS initially because I don't have time to deal with the mundane details like fonts.
[17:38] <SirCmpwn> hey who here is a ticalc admin?
[17:38] <BrandonW> Initiially I was digging into the boot code and using its version of _PutC.
[17:38] <BrandonW> And using that instead.
[17:38] <E-J> SirCmpwn: chronomex, nikky, tev
[17:39] <E-J> the evil triangle
[17:39] <critor> lol
[17:40] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://chat.efnet.org )
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[17:45] <BrandonW> 5 more pages to go.
[17:47] <critor> courage!!!!
[17:47] <critor> you're the best ;)
[17:47] <DJ_Omni> so yeah
[17:47] <+Tribal> courage the cowardly dog
[17:48] <+Tribal> great cartoon
[17:48] <+Tribal> While it lasted
[17:48] <DJ_Omni> I guess TI-BASIC programmers will have to do with the new changes (or keep their old OS) until maybe someone (*cough*BrandonW*cough*) releases a patch or something
[17:49] <BrandonW> You guys doing research and finding where the bottlenecks are will be really helpful.
[17:49] <Genolo> thing is the general public won't use patches
[17:50] <Genolo> like those people who are like how does i play games
[17:50] <BrandonW> This might be a good time to take the opportunity to write a PC-side 8XU patcher.
[17:50] <BrandonW> That way you can make changes with .patch files or similar.
[17:50] <BrandonW> And re-sign them.
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[17:50] <BrandonW> No TI copyrighted code required.
[17:50] <critor> :)
[17:50] <player_> maybe you could make a bare minimum OS: running asm programs, running basic programs, fixing the disp/output/etc, idk what else
[17:50] <calcdude> ooh. good idea. TI won't like it... :)
[17:50] <BrandonW> A bare minimum OS that can run existing programs is the intention of OS2.
[17:51] <player_> ok
[17:51] <player_> I thought os2 was going to be far more than bare minimum though
[17:51] <calcdude> i think XOS died... or we're not getting updates
[17:52] <BrandonW> It'll be extendable to whatever you want, but the idea is that there would be a core that would do all that, and then branches to do whatever else you wanted.
[17:52] <Genolo> just use pongOS
[17:52] <SirCmpwn> speaking of OS2, hows it coming
[17:52] <BrandonW> A stable OS core that can run stuff and do linking and all that is something we need. Others can build off it.
[17:52] <BrandonW> Lots of other stuff took priority (like this, Nspire stuff, work, etc.) but I'll get back to it.
[17:53] <Genolo> just gotta hope someone builds off of it
[17:53] <SirCmpwn> oh, and any hints on the secret project?
[17:53] <BrandonW> Nope.
[17:53] <BrandonW> I would build off it, it's just that the possibility would be there for anyone to grab it and build off it.
[17:53] <BrandonW> And claim it as their own.
[17:53] * Tahben (~chatzilla@ip70-162-174-179.ph.ph.cox.net) has joined #ti
[17:54] <SirCmpwn> its that important? i await with bated breath
[17:55] <DJ_Omni> i forgot to check if they changed the ascii chars layout again...
[17:55] <calcdude> how difficult is a good, fast, efficient arbitrary-folder level FS to write in asm
[17:55] <calcdude> ?
[17:55] <calcdude> i'm sure the answer is "hard"
[17:55] <player_> like DCS?
[17:56] <calcdude> no. i've had problems with DCS. and i mean a true fs
[17:56] <SirCmpwn> not too hard, actually. im working on one in LinTIx
[17:56] <calcdude> like if you write your own OS
[17:56] <calcdude> how good is it?
[17:57] <calcdude> it just seems difficult
[17:57] <calcdude> i refuse to attempt to write an OS until I have an FS design...
[17:57] <SirCmpwn> well, we just got the docs done and are about halfway through coding it. i can send you the design docs if you like
[17:58] <calcdude> sure. if i write an OS, I'll probably just use the _basic_ idea
[17:59] <calcdude> efficient memory management and speed is my problem
[18:00] <cemeyer> calcdude: keep in mind, you won't use a filesystem designed for spinning disk
[18:00] <cemeyer> you'll have to take into consideration the same things as most other flash filesystems
[18:00] <cemeyer> the embedded form factor and the fact that you can't see all of flash at once also need to be taken into account
[18:01] <calcdude> trying to minimize wear and tear on flash though...
[18:01] <calcdude> i guess with ram it isn't much of a problem
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[18:02] <SirCmpwn> i dont like ie
[18:02] <SirCmpwn> keeps crashing my irc client
[18:02] <calcdude> i use ff or chrome
[18:03] <+Tribal> I use Chrome 5
[18:03] <player_> chrome ftw
[18:03] <+Tribal> Indeed
[18:03] <SirCmpwn> i prefer ff but cant use it from here. anyway, no off topic discussions
[18:03] <calcdude> oops. back on topic
[18:03] <SirCmpwn> speaking of the topic, did i miss anything during my ie fail?
[18:04] <calcdude> no
[18:04] <SirCmpwn> alright. who here is a ticalc admin?
[18:05] <+Tribal> I think we went through this already
[18:05] <SirCmpwn> hey, people join all the time
[18:05] <SirCmpwn> and this isnt the first time ie has crashed on me, i probably missed it
[18:06] <+Tribal> ah :/
[18:06] * +Tribal goes to the logs
[18:06] <calcdude> could you send me those docs? I'm interested in knowing what I missed
[18:06] <player_> nikky, isn't he one
[18:07] <+Tribal> 17:38] <E-J> SirCmpwn: chronomex, nikky, tev
[18:07] <critor> going to sleep
[18:07] <critor> good night people
[18:08] <+Tribal> g'night critor
[18:08] <player_> g'night
[18:08] * critor (Mibbit@cro34-2-82-228-148-82.fbx.proxad.net) Quit (http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client)
[18:08] <calcdude> ooh... i found the sf page
[18:09] <SirCmpwn> sourceforge?
[18:09] <SirCmpwn> calcdude: i will find those docs here in a sec
[18:09] <calcdude> yes
[18:10] <SirCmpwn> sf page for...
[18:10] <calcdude> lintixos
[18:10] <SirCmpwn> oh yeah lol we havent put anything up there in forever
[18:11] <SirCmpwn> we are keeping most of it under wraps until we have a workable beta
[18:11] <calcdude> "multiple logins" doesn't that take it a bit too far?
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[18:11] <SirCmpwn> srry, i said we are keeping most of it under wraps until we have a workable beta
[18:11] <DJ_Omni> TIFreak8x
[18:11] <DJ_Omni> it's pathetic how slow Illusiat 13 animations are in that new OS
[18:11] <DJ_Omni> map walking is "ok"
[18:12] <DJ_Omni> but some animations are like 3x slower
[18:12] <DJ_Omni> I haven't tried magic animations yet, I'll check now
[18:12] <BrandonW> Did I see you say earlier that Text( and Output( were what were causing it?
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[18:12] <DJ_Omni> Illusait 13 uses only Output(
[18:12] <Dan_E> Probably any display of homescreen text will be slower. But Output is also slower?
[18:12] <Dan_E> Interesting
[18:13] <SirCmpwn> nikky has an email?
[18:13] <DJ_Omni> yeah
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[18:14] <SirCmpwn> and what is that?
[18:14] <DJ_Omni> Dan_E it seems Disp is even worse, tho
[18:14] <DJ_Omni> Illusiat 13 is to all my calc RPGs what Megaman 9 is to the Megaman series, so only home screen ASCII maps. The parts that are the slowest are when Disp occurs
[18:14] * player_ (~thobson12@h69-131-217-81.cntral.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[18:14] <BrandonW> I imagine Disp would be slowest, yeah.
[18:14] <BrandonW> Output( shouldn't really have to care about any of this junk.
[18:15] <Dan_E> Yeah, maybe there's just extra overhead in the parser? Or some really bad coding and it does a lot of layout code even when it's not used.
[18:15] <DJ_Omni> obviously, with MathPrint disabled, my game runs perfectly fine, though
[18:15] <BrandonW> Does it?
[18:15] <BrandonW> Everything is fine with MathPrint disabled?
[18:16] <Dan_E> Well that's an easy fix :)
[18:16] <DJ_Omni> well... at least from what i could see, the speed was pretty similar to other 84+ OSes
[18:17] <DJ_Omni> in the menu
[18:17] <DJ_Omni> when you open the stats section, there's a scrolling animation done with Disp
[18:17] <DJ_Omni> but with MathPrint enabled it seems to be at like 4 fps at most
[18:18] <DJ_Omni> with it disabled I think I get like 10
[18:20] <TIFreak8x> ouch DJ_Omni, that sucks
[18:20] <calcdude> SirCmpwn: I'll look at the docs tomorrow, I guess
[18:20] <TIFreak8x> I don't have animations, just walking and watching NPCs move around the screen was painful to see ><
[18:20] * calcdude (4af2fa9a@adsl-242-250-154.rmo.bellsouth.net) has left #ti
[18:20] <SirCmpwn> lol i just found those docs
[18:21] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://chat.efnet.org )
[18:21] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[18:21] <SirCmpwn> lol i just found those docs, too
[18:21] <DJ_Omni> TIFreak8x i just hacked my stats now, and am gonna attempt at screenshotting the magic animations for level 8 and 9
[18:21] <TIFreak8x> BrandonW: for some reason string manipulation and redisplaying seems rather slow, even with the math thing off
[18:21] <DJ_Omni> i fear how AURA LV9 will look like...
[18:26] <TIFreak8x> I should stop being distacted and actually work on pokemon now.. XD figure out why you can't select the pokeballs.. <<;
[18:27] <TIFreak8x> oh wait, I promised screenshots if the boundary thing worked..
[18:27] <SirCmpwn> so can we have a link to the current version of Pokemon Purple?
[18:27] <SirCmpwn> hey - lets test it in OS v2.53 ;)
[18:30] <SirCmpwn> *is* anyone interested in those docs previously mentioned?
[18:30] * Tahben (~chatzilla@ip70-162-174-179.ph.ph.cox.net) Quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.86 [Firefox 3.5.7/20091221164558])
[18:31] <TIFreak8x> lol, I already tested on that, SirCmpwn
[18:31] <TIFreak8x> it is 'almost' playable
[18:32] <TIFreak8x> right now making sure that invisible boundaries work like they should, then life will be good
[18:32] <DJ_Omni> http://www.omnimaga.org/index.php?topic=1487.msg21359#msg21359
[18:32] <DJ_Omni> it is not easy to see as much with CalcCapture
[18:32] <DJ_Omni> but you can get an idea
[18:33] <DJ_Omni> i think the worst part besides the menu animation (and battle win animation) is the battle intro
[18:33] <DJ_Omni> magic seems surpringsly fine, altough BLITZ 9 first part is much slower
[18:35] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://chat.efnet.org (Ping timeout))
[18:38] <TIFreak8x> I wonder if I have wabbitemu on here
[18:38] <TIFreak8x> dang, no I don't ><
[18:38] <TIFreak8x> anyone got a link to the latest wabbitemu? =/
[18:40] <TIFreak8x> oh, wait, nevermind
[18:40] <TIFreak8x> found it on my external
[18:41] <DJ_Omni> i got 3 of them, one from 2006 or 07 (that had good contrast emulation iirc), the wabbitEmu2 from 2008 that i use since the new ones aren't always reliable and one recent build (the one with glitched up screenshots)
[18:41] <DJ_Omni> (which is why I am using calccapture atm)
[18:41] <DJ_Omni> (too lazy to update :P)
[18:41] <TIFreak8x> lol
[18:42] <DJ_Omni> PP and I13 proves the ascii chars were not changed on the new OS at least
[18:42] <TIFreak8x> I keep forgetting that clicking backup from ticonnect doesn't work well for me ><
[18:42] <DJ_Omni> remember OS 1.15 update?
[18:42] <TIFreak8x> not really o.o
[18:42] <DJ_Omni> on 1.14 or lower PP/I13 won't even send at all
[18:42] <DJ_Omni> cuz of the special characters
[18:43] <DJ_Omni> but 1.15 update broke compatibility with some old apps and games
[18:43] <DJ_Omni> Omnicalc had to be updated
[18:43] <TIFreak8x> ah, thought that was 1.12, but I never really paid much attention
[18:43] <DJ_Omni> cuz the illegal tokens would no longer work
[18:43] <DJ_Omni> and Illusiat 6 final dungeon glitches in 1.15 or higher
[18:44] <TIFreak8x> alright, time for a backup that I can use for a screenshot
[18:44] <DJ_Omni> I think Brandon said that we should always use the latest OS before
[18:44] <DJ_Omni> but I think with the new OS, it won't really be the case anymore
[18:44] <BrandonW> When possible, yes. If not, we should look into how to deal with it.
[18:44] <DJ_Omni> of course patches can always fix our problems :D
[18:45] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[18:45] <TIFreak8x> *waits for the 57 archived items to be recieved*
[18:45] <SirCmpwn> srry my ie failed again is anyone interested in fs docs?
[18:46] <TIFreak8x> 57 archived files.. 18 ram files.. XD
[18:46] <DJ_Omni> hehe
[18:46] <DJ_Omni> OH! I should try Zelda
[18:47] <DJ_Omni> wow
[18:47] <DJ_Omni> there's load of crap in my archive for some reason
[18:48] <SirCmpwn> Zelda in TI-Boy or did someone create a good Zelda game?
[18:48] <DJ_Omni> like Z1RAX,Z1RATSTR
[18:48] <DJ_Omni> SirCmpwn Zelda: Dark Link Quest
[18:48] <DJ_Omni> not Spencer's Zelda
[18:48] <BrandonW> http://brandonw.net/calcstuff/OS2.53MPDisassembly.zip Here's one pass of the 2.53MP OS disassembly.
[18:48] <BrandonW> In IDA Pro.
[18:48] <DJ_Omni> I wish, though :O
[18:48] <BrandonW> I need to work out how to do symbols and all that.
[18:49] <BrandonW> So I can simplify disassembling ~18 pages per version.
[18:49] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Client Quit)
[18:49] <BrandonW> But it's something to go on if you're dying to dig into a particular thing.
[18:49] <BrandonW> Now I'm off to work.
[18:49] * player_ (~thobson12@h69-131-217-81.cntral.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) has joined #ti
[18:50] <player_> what did I miss?
[18:51] * j-b-r (~j-b-r@ip98-169-89-44.dc.dc.cox.net) Quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
[18:52] <E-J> too much
[18:52] <player_> found out something about os 2.53MP
[18:52] * j-b-r (~j-b-r@ip98-169-89-44.dc.dc.cox.net) has joined #ti
[18:53] <player_> the sumnation thing has the same syntax as "sum(seq("
[18:53] <player_> exact same
[18:55] <TIFreak8x> aaand screenie made..
[18:55] <player_> of?
[18:58] <player_> tifreak, is it really that slow?
[18:58] <TIFreak8x> pokemon is nearly unplayable on the new OS
[18:58] <player_> it looks insanely slow in my browser
[18:58] <TIFreak8x> but that is with 83+SE 1.16
[18:59] <TIFreak8x> oh
[18:59] <TIFreak8x> no o.o
[18:59] <TIFreak8x> its not that slow in game..
[18:59] <TIFreak8x> its like twice that speed o.o
[18:59] <player_> ok, where can I download it
[18:59] <TIFreak8x> I haven't put up a zip, but if you would like, I can set one up =o
[18:59] <player_> if you don't mind
[19:00] <nikky> Sweet
[19:00] <player_> I never noticed the text starts at the top of the letter and draws down
[19:00] <TIFreak8x> sure thing, one second
[19:01] <TIFreak8x> http://tifreakware.net/tifreak8x/pokemon/files/02.07.10.zip
[19:01] <player_> thanks, I'll pop it in the emulator real quick
[19:01] <DJ_Omni> Zelda dlq appears to run pretty sweet regardless of the mathprint settings
[19:02] <player_> dlq?
[19:03] <player_> do I need xlib?
[19:03] <DJ_Omni> player_ no xLIB didnt even exist back when this game was made http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITlzO3UNqCw
[19:03] <player_> sorry, for tifreaks pokemon
[19:04] <DJ_Omni> ok
[19:04] <TIFreak8x> player_: nope
[19:04] <TIFreak8x> I use no apps or anything
[19:04] <TIFreak8x> just 2 small asm programs
[19:04] <player_> nice, it gave me a data error
[19:04] <TIFreak8x> o.O
[19:04] <TIFreak8x> really?
[19:04] <player_> that wasn't the nice part, and yes...wait I'm on the new os
[19:04] <player_> does that make a difference
[19:05] <TIFreak8x> it shouldn't have, I ran the emulator completely clean from that zip file..
[19:05] <TIFreak8x> shouldn't have.. but I don't know
[19:05] <TIFreak8x> I tried pokemon on the new OS
[19:05] <TIFreak8x> and it just ran slowly
[19:05] <player_> ok
[19:05] <player_> try it in the new os please for a sec
[19:06] <TIFreak8x> I did, on calc, and it gave no errors
[19:06] <player_> eh, did you go "new game"->
[19:06] <TIFreak8x> I don't know where the rom file went of it tho on my computer..
[19:06] <player_> "red"
[19:06] <player_> the problem is in program zsp
[19:06] <TIFreak8x> no, I resumed from the continue file
[19:06] <player_> can you try new
[19:07] <TIFreak8x> it gave the error right after you selected 'Red' ?
[19:07] <player_> the error is on "if fpart(ans/2 :Pxl-On(U, (theta)+3" right before ":(theta)+4->4"
[19:07] <player_> yes
[19:07] <TIFreak8x> ok, I just started a new game on my 84+ with the new os
[19:07] <TIFreak8x> no error
[19:07] <player_> I checked ans, and it was the real number 7
[19:07] <TIFreak8x> must be a wabbit problem
[19:08] <player_> continue is thinking
[19:08] <player_> continue works
[19:08] <TIFreak8x> yeah.. I am going to make a progress bar for that.. <<;
[19:09] <player_> how do I open the start menu>
[19:09] <TIFreak8x> STAT
[19:09] <player_> ok
[19:09] <player_> ...
[19:09] <player_> data type
[19:09] <player_> same spot
[19:10] <TIFreak8x> the emulator is having troubles with it then
[19:10] <TIFreak8x> I can assure you
[19:10] <TIFreak8x> it works
[19:10] <player_> I don't disagree there
[19:10] * Dan_E (~denglende@c-98-218-79-103.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) Quit (Ping timeout: 380 seconds)
[19:10] <TIFreak8x> yeah, wabbit seems to be having troubles parsing the mathmatics for some reason with the new os
[19:11] <TIFreak8x> and it obviously worked with my wabbit on 1.16, because the sprites showed up
[19:11] <player_> wtf wabbit
[19:11] <player_> one sec
[19:12] <player_> wabbit doesn't like me
[19:12] <TIFreak8x> lol
[19:12] <TIFreak8x> do you not have a calc to try it on?
[19:13] <player_> I don't really want to send all that stuff to my calc no offence
[19:13] <player_> wabbit isn't taking all the programs...
[19:14] <TIFreak8x> none taken
[19:14] <TIFreak8x> and that is odd.. o.o
[19:15] <player_> ...
[19:15] <player_> how large is the file "zwt" supposed to be?
[19:16] <TIFreak8x> 16 bytes
[19:16] <player_> because from what I'm looking at, it should have 4 bytes to use
[19:16] <player_> oh, then I guess its right, whats it do?
[19:17] <player_> oh nvm
[19:17] <TIFreak8x> its just a pause for keypress program I think
[19:17] <TIFreak8x> to be honest, I am not sure I need it anymore
[19:17] <player_> yeah, I just thought it was wierd that it was only 16 bytes
[19:17] <TIFreak8x> I just haven't gotten around to pruning programs just yet
[19:17] <player_> good luck
[19:17] <TIFreak8x> lol
[19:17] <TIFreak8x> thanks
[19:17] <player_> I hate having to do that
[19:18] <player_> btw tifreak, I think the screenshots run normal speed in FF
[19:18] <TIFreak8x> I do as well, but it helps that I have all my code written on paper, so I know what is needed and what isn't
[19:18] <player_> yeah, mine...not so much
[19:19] <DJ_Omni> good thing PP didnt use CODEX or ZFlash for archived programs XD
[19:19] <DJ_Omni> it would most likely have 3x more subprograms
[19:19] <DJ_Omni> and garbage collect every five minutes
[19:20] <TIFreak8x> DJ_Omni: yeah.. I will have to update TI-City one of these days not to use codex anymore ><
[19:21] <TIFreak8x> I am really not looking forward to that XD
[19:21] <DJ_Omni> I tried converting ROL3 to Omnicalc once (before xLIB app came out)
[19:21] <DJ_Omni> it was so hectic that I gave up
[19:21] <DJ_Omni> Reuben wouldn't be that hard to update to Celtic
[19:22] <DJ_Omni> because most Omnicalc commands wouldn't need to be updated, since Celtic runs them fine
[19:22] <DJ_Omni> I could also ditch the xLIB.8xp that I use
[19:22] <DJ_Omni> and obviously Flash Gordon
[19:23] <TIFreak8x> yeah
[19:26] <KermM> chronomex, you around?
[19:28] * Dan_E (~denglende@c-98-218-79-103.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[19:38] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[19:39] <SirCmpwn> hallo
[19:39] <+Tribal> halo
[19:40] <SirCmpwn> did i miss anything tasty?
[19:41] <DJ_Omni> desu
[19:41] <DJ_Omni> er
[19:41] <SirCmpwn> ?
[19:41] <DJ_Omni> Pokémon Purple talk
[19:42] <SirCmpwn> ah. anything cool there?
[19:42] <TIFreak8x> I guess? If you like that sorta thing XD
[19:42] <+Tribal> He released some closed beta's
[19:42] <+Tribal> Because he's cool like that
[19:43] <SirCmpwn> TIFreak8x: you want to include me in this internal beta? please? :)
[19:43] <+Tribal> Yes, me too =P
[19:43] <TIFreak8x> lol ok XD http://tifreakware.net/tifreak8x/pokemon/files/02.07.10.zip
[19:44] <SirCmpwn> :D many thanks
[19:44] <TIFreak8x> it is confirmed working on 83+/SE/84+/SE hardware, and 83+/SE OS 1.16 on wabbitemu
[19:44] <TIFreak8x> anything else, is up in the air
[19:44] * DJ_Omni hopes it's not a rickroll
[19:44] <SirCmpwn> its not
[19:44] * DJ_Omni stabs Tribal
[19:44] <SirCmpwn> are there any prereqs?
[19:44] <TIFreak8x> not really
[19:45] <SirCmpwn> sweet. im going to try it in the new os first cause i can ;)
[19:45] <TIFreak8x> just dump them into the calc/emu from their folders, which are named according to their destinations
[19:45] <SirCmpwn> im doin that now
[19:45] <TIFreak8x> then just run prgmPOKEMON
[19:46] <SirCmpwn> ERR: Undefined
[19:47] <SirCmpwn> does it require celtic III?
[19:47] <TIFreak8x> nope
[19:47] <TIFreak8x> the zip folder contains all the files needed
[19:48] <TIFreak8x> or should, unless my computer decided to be stupid and omit files <<
[19:48] <TIFreak8x> what was undefined?
[19:48] <SirCmpwn> i didnt check, im still making sure i have all the files
[19:49] <+Tribal> Works for me
[19:49] <+Tribal> Clean, 2.53
[19:49] <TIFreak8x> hardware or emu?
[19:49] <+Tribal> emu
[19:49] <SirCmpwn> what boot code?
[19:50] <+Tribal> hmm?
[19:50] <SirCmpwn> do a self test and tell us the boot code, please
[19:50] <TIFreak8x> which emu did you use to get it to work Tribal? XD
[19:50] <+Tribal> wabbitemu, of course :X
[19:51] <SirCmpwn> you know how to find out the boot code?
[19:51] <+Tribal> I might, but not know it by that name
[19:51] <TIFreak8x> ah Tribal, someone (player_) I think, complained of it not working in there
[19:51] <SirCmpwn> push [Mode], then [Alpha]+[S]
[19:51] <player_> yep, me :)
[19:52] <+Tribal> oh ok
[19:52] <+Tribal> yeah, I didn't know how to then =P
[19:52] <+Tribal> boot 1.02
[19:52] <SirCmpwn> ok, thats what im using
[19:52] <SirCmpwn> is it running in a SE?
[19:52] <+Tribal> Yes
[19:52] <SirCmpwn> perfect.
[19:53] <SirCmpwn> i must have espn ;)
[19:53] <+Tribal> Are you using the newest version of wabbitemu?
[19:53] <SirCmpwn> i dont know, one sec
[19:53] <+Tribal> http://group.revsoft.org/wabbitemu2.exe
[19:53] <+Tribal> Jan-23
[19:53] <Buckeye> ehh
[19:53] <SirCmpwn> damn. stupid filter
[19:53] <Buckeye> http://group.revsoft.org/wabbitemu.exe
[19:53] <Buckeye> that perferabble
[19:53] <Buckeye> 2 supports groups
[19:53] <+Tribal> Buckeye, why?
[19:54] <+Tribal> oh
[19:54] <Buckeye> but has some major issues
[19:54] <+Tribal> I havn't had any x.x
[19:54] <+Tribal> Besides gif recording
[19:54] <SirCmpwn> i was trying it on a different boot code first, give me a minute to load the right one
[19:54] <+Tribal> What issues are you talking about Buckeye?
[19:54] <TIFreak8x> groups are easy to deal with, just tell TI-Connect to extract all files :p
[19:54] <Buckeye> gif recording, skinless is broked, switching roms should fail
[19:54] <bsparks> TIFreak8x, until they have picture files in them that aren't real >_>
[19:54] <Buckeye> TIFreak8x i dont have ticonnect on this machien
[19:54] <SirCmpwn> TiLP?
[19:55] <bsparks> aka Pic11 Pic12 Pic13 etc
[19:55] <Buckeye> nope
[19:55] <SirCmpwn> i got it to work ^_^
[19:55] <+Tribal> Buckeye, switching roms doesn't fail for me I don't think
[19:55] <Buckeye> really?
[19:55] <Buckeye> it should
[19:55] <+Tribal> But the others I can live with
[19:55] <Buckeye> not sure why
[19:56] <SirCmpwn> ive always been a fan of blue version, i must admit
[19:56] <TIFreak8x> ah, yeah bsparks, I guess that might be an issue
[19:56] <+Tribal> Buckeye, nvm it does
[19:56] <+Tribal> Again, I can live with that =P
[19:56] <+Tribal> Just restart and solved
[19:56] <Buckeye> yeah but that is a pain in the ass
[19:57] <Buckeye> TIFreak8x it works fine on 84pse 2.53 boot 1.0
[19:59] <TIFreak8x> sweet
[19:59] <+Tribal> Tested 'continue' and creating a new game
[19:59] <+Tribal> For me(at least) it works fine on 84pse 2.53 boot 1.2(emu)
[20:01] <SirCmpwn> its working just fine, im about to get my first pokemon ^.^ oh the memories\
[20:01] <TIFreak8x> lol
[20:01] <+Tribal> lol
[20:01] <TIFreak8x> it hasn't been programmed in yet sadly :p
[20:01] <TIFreak8x> working on it tho
[20:01] <SirCmpwn> so i found out. i gots an error undefined on prgmTEMP
[20:02] <TIFreak8x> hmm.. that shouldn't have happened, but I can't really say for certain since I haven't tried ^^;
[20:02] <player_> wierd, I got an error data type in zts or something like that
[20:02] <SirCmpwn> well, it was right after talking to Oak, i started to walk out and got halfway across the room when it happened
[20:02] <player_> I think wabbits mad at everyone today (too many TI testers)
[20:02] * rcfreak0 (~rcfreak0@adsl-68-254-168-90.dsl.milwwi.ameritech.net) has joined #ti
[20:03] * efneTI85 sets mode: +v rcfreak0
[20:03] * Remius sets mode: +v rcfreak0
[20:03] <SirCmpwn> wabbit crashed on me >.< i think player_ is right
[20:04] <Buckeye> SirCmpwn where did it crash?
[20:05] <SirCmpwn> outside of pokemon, i was trying to look at all the variables i had installed
[20:05] <SirCmpwn> hey what are the new tokens in v2.53?
[20:07] <KermM> what is making 2.53 crash wabbit?
[20:07] <KermM> some new undoc'd opcode that 2.53 is using?
[20:08] <DrDnar> AUTO Answer, CLASSIC, DEC Answer, >F<>D, FRAC Anser, logBASE(, MATHPRINT, n/d, >n/d<>Un/D, randIntNoRep(, remainder(, summation <sigma>(, Un/d, ZFrac1/2, ZFrac1/3, ZFrac1/4, ZFrac1/5, ZFrac1/8, ZFrac1/10, ZQuadrant1
[20:08] <bsparks> o.o
[20:08] <DrDnar> TI? Undocumented OP codes?
[20:08] <bsparks> randIntNoRep(? :D
[20:08] <SirCmpwn> got em. posting them on my site
[20:08] <DrDnar> Indeed.
[20:08] <KermM> DrDnar, you never know :P
[20:08] <KermM> although I
[20:08] <TIFreak8x> randIntNoRep( is a nifty command
[20:08] <bsparks> It is
[20:08] <KermM> *although I suppose that would make nSpire compatiblity not really work
[20:09] <bsparks> I have many uses for such a command
[20:09] <DrDnar> I suspect that this is merely a response to the key cracking.
[20:09] <TIFreak8x> creates a list, random number but non repeating
[20:09] <player_> deck of cards, easier
[20:09] * geekboy (c@ool-45732a17.dyn.optonline.net) has joined #ti
[20:09] <DrDnar> Well, that takes the fun out of deck shuffling.
[20:09] <player_> thats about the only use I can think of
[20:09] <TIFreak8x> randIntNoRep(1,9 creates a list, 9 elements long, 1-9, non repeating numbers
[20:09] <SirCmpwn> oooh i wonder...
[20:09] <+Tribal> BrandonW, how goes the disassembly?
[20:09] <TIFreak8x> BrandonW is working
[20:10] <+Tribal> oh
[20:10] <TIFreak8x> but..
[20:10] <TIFreak8x> he posted a link up
[20:10] <bsparks> TIFreak8x, not randIntNoRep(1,9,9 ?
[20:10] <TIFreak8x> http://brandonw.net/calcstuff/OS2.53MPDisassembly.zip
[20:10] <TIFreak8x> no bsparks
[20:10] <TIFreak8x> that errors
[20:10] <TIFreak8x> just the 2 values
[20:10] <bsparks> So I can't make a list 8 elements long with random numbers between -10 and 10 in it with no repeats? :<
[20:11] <SirCmpwn> yes you can.
[20:11] <KermM> DrDnar, what would this have to do with the key cracking?
[20:11] <KermM> making a better TI-OS before we do?
[20:11] <SirCmpwn> one second, bsparks
[20:11] <bsparks> SirCmpwn, with the randIntNoRep( command
[20:11] <SirCmpwn> bsparks: yes. coding it now, one second
[20:11] <DrDnar> Maybe they're scared we'll add our features.
[20:11] <bsparks> How are you coding a single command?
[20:11] <bsparks> There is no coding in a single command!
[20:12] <DrDnar> They also got some bad press, such as the no updates for three years.
[20:12] <BrandonW> KermM: I personally think that's it.
[20:12] <bsparks> Else it'd be something like DelVar L18->Dim(L1:For(A,1,8:Repeat not(min(something something.
[20:14] <BrandonW> That disassembly zip does have the OS in it, by the way.
[20:14] <BrandonW> For those still trying to get it.
[20:14] <SirCmpwn> randIntNoRep(1,20):Ans-10:8->dim(Ans
[20:14] <SirCmpwn> haha
[20:14] <SirCmpwn> BrandonW: i knew you would eventually post that
[20:15] <TIFreak8x> oh heck, thought you were gone BrandonW XD
[20:15] <DrDnar> randIntNoRep doesn't work the way I'd think it would.
[20:15] <SirCmpwn> btw, that gets you a list 8 elements long with random #s between -10 and 10
[20:15] <bsparks> ^ DrDnar
[20:15] <BrandonW> I technically am gone, getting ready to leave.
[20:15] <TIFreak8x> lol alright
[20:18] <DJ_Omni> mhmm
[20:20] <SirCmpwn> hey DrDnar didnt you want my filesystem docs?
[20:21] <bsparks> So is this new OS just a bunch of almost useful new features.
[20:21] <geekboy> i guess
[20:21] <geekboy> im tryig it right now seems pretty cool XD
[20:21] <bsparks> I might try it when it comes out, idk
[20:22] <SirCmpwn> bsparks: i like the prettyprint ingtegration
[20:22] <SirCmpwn> and you should get it now, just so you can say you got it early
[20:22] <+Tribal> It's 'MathPrint', they had to rename it
[20:22] <geekboy> SirCmpwn have you tried it on hardware ?
[20:22] <+Tribal> Because they didn't want to feel guilty
[20:22] <bsparks> SirCmpwn, if it doesn't add anything for me. Why get it?
[20:22] <geekboy> im wondering how slow it is XD
[20:22] <+Tribal> I've tried on hardware
[20:22] <bsparks> Also, prettyprint is the most useless feature of the 68k calcs
[20:22] <geekboy> oh
[20:22] <SirCmpwn> Player_ has tried on hardware
[20:22] <geekboy> im debating on putting it on my calc
[20:23] <DJ_Omni> bsparks i recommend against it unless you just want to mess around with it and test your old games in it
[20:23] <geekboy> should actually back up any wat so
[20:23] <geekboy> * way
[20:23] <SirCmpwn> back up everything first
[20:23] <DJ_Omni> the speed issue can be fixed by turning off MathPrint
[20:23] <+Tribal> I backed up what was important
[20:23] <DJ_Omni> but the reverse video glitches will remain
[20:23] <+Tribal> Deleted everything else
[20:23] <bsparks> Besides, I only use my calc to program, so unless this OS offers something that makes my programs better or faster, then it's useless
[20:23] <geekboy> ticonnect is the one that make backups right rihgt ?
[20:24] <DJ_Omni> bsparks not to mention using the new features will make your game even less compatible with the 83+/SE
[20:24] <bsparks> DJ_Omni, I'm not planning on supporting the 83+, and anyone with an 83+SE can play at full speed, but it won't be tested on that model.
[20:25] <DJ_Omni> ok
[20:25] <DJ_Omni> bascially if you use 84+-only commands your game will not work on 83+SE
[20:25] <SirCmpwn> hey file send command on this server?
[20:25] <DJ_Omni> but it's up to you
[20:25] <SirCmpwn> *channel
[20:25] <DJ_Omni> it depends of your IRC client
[20:25] <bsparks> DJ_Omni, I have known this since the 84+ came out ;) but it's mainly a speed thing
[20:26] <DJ_Omni> bsparks ok
[20:26] <SirCmpwn> oh dang i havent tried with this client, one sec
[20:26] <DJ_Omni> I don't know if CGI:IRC supports file transfer
[20:27] <SirCmpwn> fine, online it is. i have that fs doc pretty much finalized, you guys willing to review?
[20:28] <SirCmpwn> http://cid-c5fee036bc0d72bd.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/LFS.docx pretty please review and give feedback
[20:28] <bsparks> ewwww docx
[20:29] <geekboy> any chance you could make rtf or doc ?
[20:29] <SirCmpwn> you want an rtf instead?
[20:29] <geekboy> yes please
[20:29] <bsparks> txt preferably
[20:29] <geekboy> or txt
[20:29] <DJ_Omni> i dont like doc much either
[20:29] <SirCmpwn> no txt, sorry, it has formatting. linux users can open rtfs in open office
[20:29] <geekboy> i dont have word X.x
[20:30] <DJ_Omni> cuz it won't display the same in all text writers
[20:30] <Buckeye> you can open it in skydrive
[20:30] <bsparks> Doc is alright. But Docx is the devil >_>
[20:30] <DJ_Omni> OpenOffice isn't always up to date on Microsoft standards
[20:30] <SirCmpwn> wait, do you want an odf? that will open in everything
[20:30] <nikky> .odf is clearly superior
[20:30] <geekboy> ummm txt please i have no text editor cept note pad X.x
[20:30] <bsparks> RTF please. Let's stick with defacto standards.
[20:30] <SirCmpwn> *odt
[20:30] <SirCmpwn> oops.
[20:30] <nikky> .odf or RTF
[20:30] <bsparks> geekboy, you should also have WordPad
[20:30] <DJ_Omni> geekboy wordpad?
[20:30] <geekboy> or rtf i dont care
[20:30] <SirCmpwn> and ill upload EVERYTHING!!! hahahaha
[20:31] <DJ_Omni> wordpad opens RTFs
[20:31] <geekboy> lol bsparks na sadly non legal and a cheap iso
[20:31] <geekboy> so nothing cept the os it self :(
[20:31] <bsparks> who would eliminate wordpad from Windows?
[20:31] <bsparks> it's like 3mb
[20:31] * geekboy shoots himself for being cheap
[20:31] <geekboy> microsoft
[20:31] <SirCmpwn> http://cid-c5fee036bc0d72bd.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/LFS.odt heres an odt if anyone wants a different format let me know
[20:31] <geekboy> for not having a valid genuine key
[20:31] <KermM> wordpad is in every version of Windows by default
[20:31] <bsparks> ^
[20:31] <KermM> ah
[20:31] <DJ_Omni> bsparks Ste-Foy Cégep college would
[20:32] <DJ_Omni> at their library
[20:32] <geekboy> not mine
[20:32] <DJ_Omni> they removed Wordpad from all comps
[20:32] <bsparks> DJ_Omni, well, yeah
[20:32] <DJ_Omni> and blocked notepad
[20:32] <geekboy> someone wanna send me that exe ?
[20:32] <geekboy> or should i just get notepad++
[20:32] <bsparks> Ooh, I like the thought of Catalogue Help
[20:32] <DJ_Omni> you could use OpenOffice maybe
[20:32] <SirCmpwn> geekboy: you actually want an exe of NOTEPAD?
[20:32] <geekboy> im trying to stay light wait
[20:33] <geekboy> no wordpad
[20:33] <geekboy> i have notepad
[20:33] <SirCmpwn> wordpad, okay. ill post that in a sec
[20:33] <geekboy> kk ty
[20:33] <geekboy> think im gonna get notepad++ as well though just for completiones sake
[20:34] <SirCmpwn> http://cid-c5fee036bc0d72bd.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/write.exe clicking on this link is illegal. do it anyway
[20:34] <SirCmpwn> (copyrighted material)
[20:34] <geekboy> lol
[20:34] <bsparks> I still can't open this docx or odf
[20:34] <bsparks> err, odt
[20:34] <SirCmpwn> *sigh* tell me a format and i will make it work
[20:34] * JoniFone (~TheStorm@235.63.226.166.in-addr.arpa) has joined #ti
[20:34] <geekboy> hi JoniFone
[20:35] <bsparks> We _already_ told you more than once. RTF
[20:35] <JoniFone> hey
[20:35] <SirCmpwn> fine fine fine.
[20:35] <SirCmpwn> will you take a .pdf, please? i dont want to lose formatting
[20:35] <bsparks> I opened it in google docs
[20:35] <bsparks> there IS NO FORMATTING >.<
[20:36] <bsparks> You have some tabbed lines. That's it >_>
[20:36] <SirCmpwn> there we go. there are headers and colors and font sizes and different sections
[20:36] <SirCmpwn> a lot of that would be lost in rft
[20:36] <SirCmpwn> *rtf
[20:36] <bsparks> ...
[20:36] <bsparks> Headers are useless. Colours are annoying.
[20:36] <bsparks> Opinions, still. But c-mon
[20:37] <SirCmpwn> Colours make me happy inside ^.^ lol
[20:37] <DJ_Omni> there's actually formating in rtf files iirc
[20:37] <DJ_Omni> Codex readme is an example
[20:37] <SirCmpwn> and i have some bad experiences with rtf
[20:37] <bsparks> Indeed, RTF can have font changes
[20:37] <bsparks> *formatting
[20:37] <DJ_Omni> but they're not necessary if it's just to show us some text
[20:37] <SirCmpwn> do you have wordpad yet? i would like to delete it
[20:37] <DJ_Omni> just copy the text in a txt file and we'll be happy. We're all used to just plain text after all
[20:37] <geekboy> just delete it i got it :)
[20:37] <bsparks> I feel like someone should pay me money for wasting my time
[20:37] <geekboy> :/
[20:38] <SirCmpwn> you can close your eyes and imagine cash in your hand
[20:38] <SirCmpwn> if it makes you feel better
[20:39] <SirCmpwn> but i would appriciate (i know its spelled wrong) a review of that file
[20:39] <geekboy> ill review after im done reading if i understand any of it
[20:39] <bsparks> http://ijuln.net/file/LFS.txt
[20:39] <bsparks> For anyone that doesn't want to bother with formatting
[20:40] <SirCmpwn> you lost the returns and the tabs
[20:40] <SirCmpwn> but thanks for converting it
[20:40] <E-J> bsparks uses uk english word _b
[20:40] <SirCmpwn> ah.
[20:41] <bsparks> Looks fine when I open it in TextEdit, Word, and Google Docs
[20:41] <bsparks> returns and tabs included
[20:41] <SirCmpwn> weird i dont see them
[20:41] <DJ_Omni> SirCmpwn in the TI community, formatting doesnt matter. That's a rule to follow. If you notice, too, most computer softwares comes with plain text files too. If your text has absolutely no formatting, just paragraph divisions separated by titles if applicable, people will be fine
[20:42] <SirCmpwn> hold on i made a txt version
[20:42] <DJ_Omni> in 1995, readmes were even written in all caps
[20:42] <bsparks> Hmm, looks fine in AbiWord and Chrome
[20:42] <SirCmpwn> http://cid-c5fee036bc0d72bd.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/LFS.txt there we go
[20:43] * Jonimus_ (~TheStorm@209.225.103.140) has joined #ti
[20:43] <bsparks> SirCmpwn, yours lacks spacing and returns
[20:43] <bsparks> >_>
[20:43] <bsparks> In TextEdit... Word... AbiWord... I'll test in chrome in a sec
[20:44] <SirCmpwn> bsparks: ????????????
[20:44] <SirCmpwn> http://cid-c5fee036bc0d72bd.skydrive.live.com/self.aspx/Public/notepad.exe this program will open it correctly
[20:45] <bsparks> That's fantastic... for people that run windows.
[20:45] <DJ_Omni> SirCmpwn i don't think he runs windows
[20:45] <DJ_Omni> ninja'd x.x
[20:45] * Goplat (~goplat@76-191-156-24.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net) has joined #ti
[20:45] <SirCmpwn> wine?
[20:45] <DJ_Omni> Mac Os i think
[20:46] <bsparks> That's require an x86 processor
[20:46] <SirCmpwn> what the hell are you using?!?
[20:46] <Jonimus_> a PPC mac
[20:46] * player_ (~thobson12@h69-131-217-81.cntral.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) Quit (Read error: Operation timed out)
[20:46] <cemeyer> ppc
[20:46] <bsparks> Mac OS X 10.5.8 PPC
[20:46] <SirCmpwn> eewwwwww
[20:46] <Jonimus_> SirCmpwn, you fial
[20:46] <Jonimus_> fail
[20:46] <SirCmpwn> LOL
[20:46] <Jonimus_> also PPC>>x86 IMO
[20:46] <SirCmpwn> did Jonimus_ seriously just misspell "fail?"
[20:46] <Jonimus_> not that I like Apple but PPC is a great Architiecuture
[20:47] <bsparks> Here, I'll try Word 08 [ was using 04 prior ]
[20:47] <Jonimus_> and I mispelt that ^
[20:47] <geekboy> stupid question but what do you mean by "backwards" all the time (srry like n00b to asm and alot of technical jargon X.x)
[20:47] <SirCmpwn> holy crap that was awesome Jonimus_. anyway, i am an avid believer in killing all macs
[20:48] <SirCmpwn> geekboy: backwards meaning it starts at the end of the memory and moves towards the front.
[20:48] * Jonimus_ (~TheStorm@209.225.103.140) Quit (Leaving)
[20:48] <geekboy> ok
[20:48] <geekboy> hmm it makes sense i think XD
[20:48] <geekboy> gona re read it like 5 more times though
[20:49] <SirCmpwn> lol just let me know when you finish it ;)
[20:49] <bsparks> SirCmpwn, http://ijuln.net/file/WordLFS.png
[20:50] <SirCmpwn> weird. well, both get the point across anyway
[20:51] <bsparks> Just saying, if you go with straight unicode txt docs, no special formatting. It makes it easier for everyone
[20:52] <SirCmpwn> true. anyway, any comments on the actual contents of the document?
[20:52] <geekboy> so far no
[20:52] <geekboy> its relatively self explanitory
[20:52] <SirCmpwn> well, in terms of efficiency and such
[20:52] <geekboy> other then the previoulsly mysterious backwards
[20:53] <geekboy> hmm now that i understand the backwards it cystal clear XD
[20:54] <DJ_Omni> hmm
[20:54] <geekboy> the only minor thing i could think of is making the example pointer a real one as to not have extra notes which confuse some ppl (like me :/)
[20:55] <SirCmpwn> lol thats an idea. it is intended to remain mostly internal, but i can probably change that
[20:56] <geekboy> not really important but its somthing :)
[20:56] <SirCmpwn> brb afk
[20:56] <DJ_Omni> strange
[20:57] <DJ_Omni> someone upgraded to 2.53
[20:57] <DJ_Omni> then downgraded to 2.43
[20:57] <geekboy> and ?
[20:57] <bsparks> and kept new features?
[20:57] <geekboy> lol
[20:57] <DJ_Omni> and afterward his calc still ran as slow as if he still had 2.53 installed with MathPrint ON
[20:57] <bsparks> Oh, ew
[20:57] <DJ_Omni> however
[20:58] <TIFreak8x> that might cause problems.. o.o
[20:58] <DJ_Omni> clearing all mem fixed it
[20:58] <DJ_Omni> but still strange
[20:58] <geekboy> yeah :/
[20:58] <DJ_Omni> cuz isn't the RAM cleared with default settings back when you change OSes?
[20:58] <geekboy> mby i shouldent try iy on calc X.x
[20:58] <geekboy> DJ_Omni no
[20:58] <geekboy> its not
[20:58] <TIFreak8x> yes it is
[20:58] <DJ_Omni> cuz everytime I upgraded or downgraded
[20:58] <TIFreak8x> it clears the RAM
[20:58] <geekboy> really
[20:58] <DJ_Omni> my RAM cleared
[20:58] <DJ_Omni> as for the new OS
[20:58] <geekboy> i last upgraded and kept all my ram
[20:59] <TIFreak8x> it saves Archived stuff
[20:59] <geekboy> intact
[20:59] <DJ_Omni> I just tried on Wabbitemu 2 so far, because I don't have a 84
[20:59] <TIFreak8x> geekboy: I have done it to 3 calcs
[20:59] <geekboy> *shrugs*
[20:59] <TIFreak8x> ram clear everytime
[20:59] <DJ_Omni> strange
[20:59] <geekboy> hmm maby its cause it was just corrupt
[20:59] <DJ_Omni> geekboy from which OS did you upgrade?
[20:59] <geekboy> and wasnt a update
[20:59] <geekboy> i misstates
[20:59] <geekboy> it was a repair
[20:59] <nikky> I find it unlikely that upgrading an OS would cause a slowdown.
[20:59] <geekboy> the os got corrupted
[21:00] <geekboy> cause of a improper exporting of a os to another calc
[21:00] <geekboy> kinda did it backwards
[21:00] <geekboy> so i pulled the plug and reinstalled 2.43
[21:00] <SirCmpwn> i is cack
[21:00] <geekboy> and i didnt get a ram clear wb
[21:00] <SirCmpwn> *back
[21:01] <SirCmpwn> woops
[21:01] <geekboy> lol
[21:04] <SirCmpwn> publishing a project in a min
[21:05] <KermM> yay
[21:06] <SirCmpwn> its in TI-Basic, anyone wanna help finish it? (hosting it in source coder)
[21:06] <geekboy> lol
[21:06] <geekboy> whats it do ?
[21:06] <SirCmpwn> its an on-calc debugger for TI-Basic code
[21:07] <geekboy> oh
[21:07] <geekboy> thats pretty interetng
[21:07] <geekboy> *interesting
[21:07] <SirCmpwn> wanna help?
[21:07] <geekboy> i can try
[21:07] <geekboy> im not a great basic coder
[21:07] <geekboy> nor asm
[21:07] <SirCmpwn> you have a cemetech login?
[21:07] <geekboy> no
[21:07] <geekboy> omnimaga kid :/
[21:08] <SirCmpwn> you have edit permissions
[21:08] * player_ (~thobson12@h69-131-217-81.cntral.dsl.dynamic.tds.net) has joined #ti
[21:09] <geekboy> ??
[21:09] <geekboy> never really used soucecoder
[21:09] <SirCmpwn> 1 sec
[21:09] * +Tribal (~Tribal@pa-76-2-65-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit
[21:10] <SirCmpwn> http://www.cemetech.net/projects/basicelite/sourcecoder2.php has the source
[21:11] <geekboy> kk
[21:11] <SirCmpwn> make that http://www.cemetech.net/projects/basicelite/sourcecoder2.php?xpi=32ea805f0d34470d72aa666e94dae618
[21:11] <SirCmpwn> my bad
[21:12] <KermM> bet you guys didn't know about THAT in sourcecoder :D
[21:12] <geekboy> what ?
[21:12] <SirCmpwn> ?
[21:12] <KermM> the ability to use it to edit, share, and collaborate on code like Pastebin
[21:12] <DJ_Omni> KermM nope (I only knew about pasting images)
[21:12] <KermM> I need to make that a little more userfriendly though
[21:12] <geekboy> oh no[e
[21:13] <DJ_Omni> didn't pasting image in url form produced massive URLs tho?
[21:13] <KermM> it's a bit convoluted
[21:13] <KermM> DJ_Omni, indeedy
[21:13] <DJ_Omni> it was almost as bad as www.hugeurl.com
[21:13] <SirCmpwn> you could make it support asm too and it could be become a standard
[21:13] <SirCmpwn> i just loled at hugeurl
[21:13] <DJ_Omni> well he could at least have online hex dissassembler, but Galandros alerady did that now
[21:13] <geekboy> SirCmpwn um mcan u explain all the asm files used ?
[21:13] <KermM> SirCmpwn, post that link in a topic on Cemetech; if you have it set to allow editing, the SourceCoder bot will post all updates to the code in any thread you specify
[21:14] <geekboy> not knowing what they do makes it a bit hard to follow
[21:14] <SirCmpwn> geekboy - give me a min, ill create a thread
[21:14] <geekboy> kk
[21:14] * Tribal (~Tribal@pa-76-2-65-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) has joined #ti
[21:14] <SirCmpwn> still in ie, ill be gone for a sec while i switch browsers
[21:15] <geekboy> ok
[21:15] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://chat.efnet.org )
[21:15] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[21:15] <geekboy> wb
[21:15] <SirCmpwn> thanks!
[21:15] <SirCmpwn> lol
[21:15] <geekboy> np
[21:16] <SirCmpwn> hey KermM does sourcecoder automatically create a new thread for each project? it sounds like it
[21:22] <player_> no
[21:23] <player_> have you seen this page? http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4163
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[21:26] * millinao (~Joshua@c-76-27-206-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[21:27] <SirCmpwn> i have seen it now ;) gtg
[21:27] <player_> ok, see ya
[21:28] <SirCmpwn> heres the forum, im giving everyone edit access http://www.cemetech.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=93702#93702
[21:28] <player_> whats this for?
[21:28] <SirCmpwn> TI-Basic Debugger. gtg cya
[21:29] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: http://chat.efnet.org (EOF))
[21:29] <player_> oh, cool
[21:48] <Genolo> ti probably intentionally leaked the os in a much crappier state then what they are going to release
[21:48] <Genolo> just to fuck with our minds
[21:48] <player_> thats their exact intentions :)
[21:48] <DrDnar> I think we give them too much credit in that department.
[21:48] <Genolo> what department
[21:48] <DrDnar> screwing with the community
[21:48] <Genolo> lol
[21:49] <geekboy> lol
[21:49] <Tribal> Yay
[21:49] <Tribal> Now it's 4F
[21:49] <player_> they're angry at us programmers for figuring out the OS signing key
[21:49] <Tribal> woops wrong chan
[21:49] <player_> :P
[21:50] <Genolo> "us programmers" being BrandonW
[21:50] <player_> yeah, but the other people make games and other stuff
[21:57] * SirCmpwn (4b46f7b2@c-75-70-247-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) has joined #ti
[21:57] <SirCmpwn> im not on for long, can has anyone taken a look at the debugger?
[21:58] <player_> sorry, I haven't yet but I will
[21:59] <geekboy> i have a bit
[21:59] * millinao (~Joshua@c-76-27-206-76.hsd1.or.comcast.net) Quit (Quit: Leaving)
[21:59] <geekboy> like tripple tasking so
[21:59] <geekboy> not much has ben read
[21:59] <geekboy> although thanky you for clarfying what each asm prog did
[22:00] <geekboy> help a lot :P
[22:00] <SirCmpwn> thanks, im working on the post to clarify a bit more
[22:00] <geekboy> kk
[22:01] * Ti-newb (~tinewbti@66.222.200.47) has joined #ti
[22:03] * Tribal (~Tribal@pa-76-2-65-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) Quit
[22:06] <SirCmpwn> I added a bit about the usage and some information about how it works, thanks for your help
[22:06] <geekboy> np
[22:06] <geekboy> ill look again in a bit trying to set something else up
[22:06] <SirCmpwn> tkx. ttyl
[22:06] <geekboy> what is exxactly needed again ??
[22:06] <SirCmpwn> oh, a debugger for TI-Basic
[22:07] <geekboy> i mean what needs to be added/looked at ect
[22:07] <geekboy> i know what it is :) im interested in it XD
[22:07] <player_> could you include the exact files, or did you and I just can't see it
[22:08] <SirCmpwn> the dependency on S3 needs to be removed, and For loops need to be interpreted. Let me put up the files.
[22:08] <player_> ok
[22:09] <SirCmpwn> http://cid-c5fee036bc0d72bd.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/Public/TI-Debug?uc=4 all the files are here
[22:09] <player_> thanks
[22:10] <SirCmpwn> thanks for the help, cya l8r
[22:10] <geekboy> cya
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[22:47] <player_> brandon?
[22:48] <nikky> BrandonW is his nick
[22:49] <player_> fine
[22:49] <player_> BrandonW, are you here?
[22:49] <BrandonW> On and off.
[22:49] <BrandonW> Those news post that are being spread around indicate some of the applications are built into the OS, which is not true.
[22:49] <player_> you said that in the new OS there were some new bcalls, did they remove some?
[22:50] <BrandonW> The NAMES of several are hard-coded in there for reasons unknown.
[22:50] <BrandonW> No, they don't remove BCALLs.
[22:50] <player_> or move them
[22:50] <BrandonW> They don't move BCALLs. It can't be done.
[22:50] <player_> ok
[22:50] <BrandonW> I have seen on a couple of occasions they "remove" them by changing the code to simply be "ret".
[22:51] <BrandonW> And I've seen them repurpose some, such as the Write-to-Flash one, which was originally used to receive applications over I/O.
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[22:51] <DJ_Omni> I pretty much just posted links to other sources in the news (and the screenshots)
[22:51] <player_> I know the ctlghelp app (or at least the one I have) says err:Version
[22:52] <BrandonW> Because the OS' catalog hooks indicate a bad version.
[22:52] <player_> is that part of the app itself, or the OS
[22:52] <player_> oh
[22:52] <BrandonW> And the application is coded to throw that error in that case.
[22:52] <BrandonW> I can't remember, the hook enable BCALL might throw that.
[22:52] <player_> alright
[22:53] <player_> should I downgrade back to os 2.40, or just stick with the new one for a couple of days (more?)
[22:53] <BrandonW> That's up to you.
[22:53] <player_> ok
[22:53] <player_> I guess I'll keep it for now
[22:53] <player_> ...wait
[22:54] <player_> can't I put one of the z80 OS's into emu8x?
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[22:54] <BrandonW> Emu8x doesn't emulate the 83+.
[22:55] <DrDnar> That would be redundant.
[22:55] <player_> 84+?
[22:55] <player_> not if it was a different OS
[22:55] <BrandonW> It doesn't support it. It can't because of the Flash.
[22:56] <player_> I'm sorry, but what does that mean?
[22:56] <DrDnar> The archive presents emulation issues.
[22:56] <player_> like
[22:56] <DrDnar> When Emu8x was written, there was no universal flash unlock exploit.
[22:57] <player_> ok, so it can't write to archive
[22:57] <BrandonW> It would be slow and not smart, prone to issues.
[22:57] <player_> ok
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[23:15] <BrandonW> I've yet to disassemble the new version of Catalog Help to see what they did.
[23:16] <BrandonW> It might be beneficial to do a diff between it and 1.0.
[23:16] <player_> so is there a catalog help built into the os?
[23:16] <BrandonW> No.
[23:16] <player_> ok
[23:16] <player_> so TI uploaded a new one?
[23:16] <BrandonW> They haven't uploaded anything.
[23:16] <BrandonW> They have one ready to go with the release of this OS.
[23:16] <player_> so I just have an old one
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[23:22] <BrandonW> Five dollars says we'll see it on the 83+/SE OS as well.
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[23:22] <player_> lol
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[23:24] <BrandonW> They did backport Write-to-Flash.
[23:24] <BrandonW> It's not inconcievable they'll do it to this, too.
[23:24] <player_> sorry, backport?
[23:24] <BrandonW> Put the same code in the 83+/SE 1.x codebase.
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[23:24] <player_> oh
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Session Close: Mon Feb 08 00:00:00 2010